Written by The modern American comic book industry is a shadow of its former self. There are numerous reasons for this, but one contributing factor is the emergence of activist-writers. Companies like Marvel claim to want to reach a “diverse” audience, but these days its employees spend an inordinate amount of time demonizing nearly half of its potential customers.
Two writers who perfectly encapsulate the “activist-writer” problem for the industry are Mark Waid and Dan Slott.
If you have been wondering why Marvel’s sales are lagging these days, then check out my newest YouTube video below. Then, let me know what you think in the comments section below.
Also, make sure to subscribe if YouTube videos on the comic industry are up your alley. I try to get out at least one per week.
Douglas Ernst Blog 
Great video. I’ve never seen anything like this. These people are truly unhinged. And they accuse the right of being hate-filled?
I didn’t know Waid was as nutty as Slott. I actually thought he was pretty laid back.
You’re right — I do not want to line their pockets when they act like this.
“Great video. I’ve never seen anything like this. These people are truly unhinged. And they accuse the right of being hate-filled?”
Anyone who does a case study in projection has easy material with the guys. Their social media accounts pulsate with anger and hate as they accuse others of being intolerant, etc.
“I didn’t know Waid was as nutty as Slott. I actually thought he was pretty laid back.”
Waid comes off as extra unhinged due to his knee-jerk response to go for the expletives. Maybe it makes him feel like a tough guy? I’m not sure what that’s all about.
“You’re right — I do not want to line their pockets when they act like this.”
Marvel board meeting chairman: What’s up with our comic book division? Why are sales sagging?
Board Member 2: I’m not sure. It’s really strange. Hey, did you see Mark Waid’s Twitter account? He keeps calling people Neo-Nazis. Do you think readers are getting sick of it? Maybe they’re not buying books because our authors keep swearing at them, insulting their family members, etc.
Chairman: Nah! Anyone have any other ideas?
I’ve said many times what Doug so eloquently stated here (again), and consider this: Did these cretins ever stop to think that young teens might be following them on social media? I know there are plenty of middle school-aged comics fans — I had a YUGE turnout for my comicbook club my second-to-last year of teaching.
I can’t imagine my fave writers during my teen years (Thomas, Englehart, Wein, Wolfman, Michelinie) screaming at people — FANS — like that on the letters pages.
“I’ve said many times what Doug so eloquently stated here (again), and consider this: Did these cretins ever stop to think that young teens might be following them on social media? I know there are plenty of middle school-aged comics fans — I had a YUGE turnout for my comicbook club my second-to-last year of teaching.”
Good point, Hube. I started collecting comics when I was a kid, so I have to image that if I grew up in this day and age that I’d be following a ton of writers in the comic industry. Great example to set, Mr. Waid…
At the end of the day, it’s just unprofessional. My boss would be livid with me if I started dropping F-bombs in my Twitter feed every time someone gave me snark. I typically just ignore the worst stuff and then they go away. If someone starts harassing me, then there is always the mute or block button … but that rarely happens. There was one guy who threatened me and my employer with physical violence who was blocked, and then I’m sure there were a few who others who started swearing. That’s about it.
I dont know, since when is it not okay for artists and creators to have opinions. Heck, if they stopped we would have bigger problems to deal with. This makes them seem worse than it is. They were in some major arguments and debates with many racist, misogynist people. Maybe some innocent people got caught in the cross-fire. To blame comic sales on these actions is a pretty big stretch, considering the many other variables. I would lose more respect for Marvel if they were telling there creators to keep their opinions to themselves.
“I dont know, since when is it not okay for artists and creators to have opinions.”
Straw Man argument, Green Onion. I never told any creator not to have an opinion. You’ve been reading this blog long enough to know that saying something that silly would be called out immediately.
“Heck, if they stopped we would have bigger problems to deal with. This makes them seem worse than it is.”
Green Onion, do you think it is acceptable for Nick Spencer to tell his Twitter followers to stop believing in the “myth of the good Republican”? I think that is downright disgusting. Do you have Republican family members or friends? I’m guess the answer is no, or otherwise you would find it gross to say that no Republicans can be good people. What would you do if Nick Spencer said the EXACT same thing about Muslims? Or gay people? My guess is that you would have a different reaction…
Likewise, it is completely unacceptable for a writer to issue blanket statements about millions of Trump voters being “Neo-Nazis,” “racists,” etc. If you cannot see that a boundary has been crossed by these men, then you are part of the problem. The very same people who demand we not generalize about, say, Muslims, are perfectly okay calling millions of Americans “Neo-Nazis” simply because they disagree with Mark Waid.
“They were in some major arguments and debates with many racist, misogynist people. Maybe some innocent people got caught in the cross-fire. To blame comic sales on these actions is a pretty big stretch, considering the many other variables.”
I said this was one variable. Let me repeat that for you: one. And it is true.
Would you like me to list all my regular readers who have said they either stopped buying Marvel comics completely or severely cut back because of the disgusting rhetoric of men like Mark Waid? I can do that for you. Or perhaps some of them would like to comment. We already have Eric. Hube is on the list. I’m on there. There are more who are subscribing to my YouTube account with every new post.
So please, continue to pretend that this is not a factor. See how that works out for the industry…
“I would lose more respect for Marvel if they were telling there creators to keep their opinions to themselves.”
Again, creators are entitled to their opinions, but they should at least adhere to a certain level of professionalism. Calling anyone who disagrees with Mark Waid a “Neo-Nazi” is not professional. Telling readers that there is no such thing as a “good Republican” is gross. Dan Slott telling Christians to go to “Christ-Land” is abhorrent.
I’m not sure how anyone can defend that sort of rhetoric.
Whoa, Im just defending free speech.
“Whoa, Im just defending free speech.”
And I’m just pointing out your Straw Man arguments — and the fact that it’s possible to defend free speech while also calling out writers for unprofessional and disgusting rhetoric.
And yes, I live in Alberta, Canada so most my friends, family and peers happen to be conservative.
“And yes, I live in Alberta, Canada so most my friends, family and peers happen to be conservative.”
So do you acknowledge that it is disgusting for Nick Spencer to say “good” Republicans do not exist?
What would you do if Nick Spencer said it is a “myth” that there is such a thing as “good” Muslims?
Oh no, Im not enabling some sort of debate here. That’s loaded and you know it. I simply disagree that there is anything wrong with these artists speaking there minds. Buy there books or dont. Doesnt matter. For every one that drops them because they disagree with their opinions, they may gain one that does. Doesnt matter.
“Oh no, Im not enabling some sort of debate here. That’s loaded and you know it.”
No, it isn’t. I wrote a post about comic professionals acting in an unprofessional manner and you tried to turn it into a free speech issue. Then, when you were called on it, you suddenly didn’t want to “debate.”
It’s not a loaded question at all. If you can’t call Nick Spencer’s comment out of bounds in terms of professionalism and good taste, then good — it says everything we need to know. If you think that is a “loaded” question, then good — your silence speaks volumes.
“I simply disagree that there is anything wrong with these artists speaking there minds. Buy there books or dont. Doesnt matter. For every one that drops them because they disagree with their opinions, they may gain one that does. Doesnt matter.”
Actually, it does matter to investors. It does matter to the accountants who have to do payroll. To say that it “doesn’t matter” is rather immature because I assure you that Marvel’s comics division is looking at its sales this year and trying to figure out how to turn the ship around — ASAP.
It’s funny how quickly you turned into one of these ‘bullies’ that you seem to have an issue with.
“It’s funny how quickly you turned into one of these ‘bullies’ that you seem to have an issue with.”
Really? You want to go with that? Show me how I’m a “bully” here. You can’t.
You literally won’t say one bad thing about the behavior of Mark “f**k off” Waid or Nick “myth of the good Republican” Spencer, but you’ll call me a bully? Classic!
You’ve been reading this blog for awhile. You know the drill. You commented with a total Straw Man argument. You made it seem like someone wanted to deny Mark Waid free speech, which was a total distortion of my post. Then, when you were called out on it, you didn’t want to “debate.”
Again, good one Green Onion. I’m sure my other regular readers will get a laugh out of your performance and double-standards.
You wrote a slant article on how these few writers have been abusing their rights to whatever opinions they so choose. Calling them bullies for arguing with people with different views. Then when the first person to disagree with your opinion pops up, you started manipulating what I wasn’t saying, insulting me, and shoving your opinion down my throat. What makes what youre doing any different from them? Everyone should get a laugh outta this, this whole thing is a joke
“You wrote a slant article on how these few writers have been abusing their rights to whatever opinions they so choose. Calling them bullies for arguing with people with different views.”
Nick Spencer saying there is no such thing as a good Republican is a statement that is disgusting. Again, you refuse to acknowledge that but you’ll call me a “bully.” Good one. I’m glad you commented. It shows the lengths that guys like you will go to in order to defend the indefensible.
“Then when the first person to disagree with your opinion pops up, you started manipulating what I wasn’t saying, insulting me, and shoving your opinion down my throat.”
The readers will decide if I “manipulated” your words. I did no such thing. As for me “shoving” my opinion down your throat, that is kind of weird since this is my blog and no one forced you to come here and comment … or to keep commenting.
“What makes what youre doing any different from them? Everyone should get a laugh outta this, this whole thing is a joke.”
How about I never told you to “f**k off” like Mark Waid. I didn’t ban you for disagreeing with me like Dan Slott. I didn’t say that you and anyone who thinks like you are not good people like Nick Spencer.
In fact, all I did is say that you were offering a Straw Man argument (True), and that your silence was wonderful to me because it says everything my readers need to know. That, to you, is “bullying.” But again, you can’t even say that what Mark Waid, Nick Spencer, and Dan Slott do on a regular basis is unprofessional. Again, telling.
If this exchange constitutes “bullying” in your book, then your definition of “bullying” is rather odd. It omits Nick Spencer for demonizing all Republicans in the United States, but includes me for saying that your silence on his statement is incredibly informative.
Do you know what would be bullish of me? To keep going without warning you now that you really should just walk away. You willingly entered the comments section knowing full well who I am and that I don’t play Patty Cake in the comments section; you offered Straw Man arguments, and then you tried to cry “bully” when I exposed the silliness of your claims.
I do not want you to continue to embarrass yourself, but at the same time you will not get the last word on my blog. Unlike Dan Slott, I have no desire to ban you. Unlike Mark Waid, I will not tell you to “f**k yourself.” Unlike Nick Spencer, I will not call you a bad person. BUT…I will call you out on bad arguments all day long.
I suggest you think long and hard about what transpired here. You’ll be better for it if you’re honest with yourself.
You’ll notice I didnt unfollow you either. Because I believe everyone has a right to their opinion. I sure as heck aint calling you immature for yours, but thats beside the point. If you want to make opinion pieces like this I would get used to the idea that your opinion doesnt make you right or wrong, its just an opinion. And because I do not wish to touch upon what was individually said by Waid, Slott, or Spencer doesnt mean I agree or disagree, it means that I do not wish to comment on what was said only that they are free to say it.
“You’ll notice I didnt unfollow you either. Because I believe everyone has a right to their opinion. I sure as heck aint calling you immature for yours, but thats beside the point.”
Your comment about how the writers’ behavior and its possible impact on sales “doesn’t matter” indeed shows an immaturity of thought, because the people who do the payroll begin taking antacids when sales drop. If you don’t agree, then you’re free to either a.) counter my point, or b.) walk away.
The numbers — the actual data — back me up in terms of the industry and sales. All you have at this point is “it doesn’t matter.” Wrong. It most certainly does matter.
“If you want to make opinion pieces like this I would get used to the idea that your opinion doesnt make you right or wrong, its just an opinion.”
I’ve had this blog for six years. I work for a newspaper and receive all sorts of feedback on a regular basis. Do you realize how laughable it is for you to lecture me on taking criticism? You’re the one who starting crying that I was a “bully” when you got a few responses you didn’t like (while, again, refusing to comment on the professionalism of Mark “f**k off” Waid).
“And because I do not wish to touch upon what was individually said by Waid, Slott, or Spencer doesnt mean I agree or disagree, it means that I do not wish to comment on what was said only that they are free to say it.”
Newsflash: If you comment on a blog post that is specifically about the unprofessional comments by Mark Waid, Dan Slott, and Nick Spencer, and then say “I do not wish to comment” on the issue at hand, then you should not be shocked when the moderator doesn’t give you a rhetorical pat on the back.
Newsflash: When you start talking about “free speech” when free speech is not the issue at hand, then do not act taken aback when the moderator calls you out on Straw Man arguments and Red Herrings.
Seriously? Are you that high on yourself? If you dont want to hear what im saying why do you keep replying?
“Seriously? Are you that high on yourself? If you dont want to hear what im saying why do you keep replying?”
This is my blog, Green Onion. You do not get the last word on my blog unless I deem it appropriate. When you start your own blog, then I will gladly give you the last word on any argument. I will not come to your house and try and dictate the rules of a discussion.
I tried to warn you earlier that I didn’t want to embarrass you, but your pride is getting in the way. I will continue to expose the ridiculousness of your comments until the cows come home. Like Dan Slott, right now you appear to lack the self awareness to know that in this debate you have been wholly embarrassed. Try again in another thread. You’re in a hole and you need to get out. Stop digging.
I am not high on myself when I point out that your definition of “bully” includes me, but not someone who issues blanket statements about all Republicans being bad people.
You came into the comments section on a post on unprofessional behavior, and then when I asked you a point-blank question about whether Nick Spencer’s comments were unprofessional you refused to discuss the issue. That is rather inconsiderate to do, and if my name were Mark Waid then the method of handling the situation would be much different. If my name were Mark Waid, perhaps I’d tell you to “f**k off,” and then you’d run to some other blog and say how honored you were to be told off and insulted by a Marvel writer.
Again, you look really bad right now. Walk away.
“Your comment about how the writers’ behavior and its possible impact on sales “doesn’t matter” indeed shows an immaturity of thought, because the people who do the payroll begin taking antacids when sales drop. If you don’t agree, then you’re free to either a.) counter my point, or b.) walk away.”
What I said is “For every one that drops them because they disagree with their opinions, they may gain one that does. Doesnt matter.” If your going to argue a point you should read it all the way through.
“The numbers — the actual data — back me up in terms of the industry and sales. All you have at this point is “it doesn’t matter.” Wrong. It most certainly does matter.”
Show me the data that says x amount of readers stopped buying Marvel comics because of a, b, and c writers social commentary. Versus y amount of readers that purchased comics by a, b, and c writers to support them. Please, don’t go claiming numbers and data that doesn’t exist.
“I’ve had this blog for six years. I work for a newspaper and receive all sorts of feedback on a regular basis. Do you realize how laughable it is for you to lecture me on taking criticism? You’re the one who starting crying that I was a “bully” when you got a few responses you didn’t like”
I make a valid point that you are doing exactly what you are condemning these writers for. If you want to call them bullies you need to take a long look at what you are doing.
“(while, again, refusing to comment on the professionalism of Mark “f**k off” Waid).”
You know when I lost all respect for anything you have to say here. Its when you asked me, “So do you acknowledge that it is disgusting for Nick Spencer to say “good” Republicans do not exist? What would you do if Nick Spencer said it is a “myth” that there is such a thing as “good” Muslims?”
There are so many things going wrong here I don’t even know where to begin.
It is a loaded question because no matter how I answer you’re baiting me in for an argument. I clearly didn’t want to get into this but you would not let up, bully.
Fact: Majority of the world fear the American Republican more than any other party, group or class than any other. They are dangerous, and majority of the world classify them as evil. What Waid is saying is that anybody who would willingly label themselves a republican align there beliefs and values with those of racists, misogynists, sexists, and what have you. To everybody except republicans that would be classified under ‘bad’, as in not good.
Do I agree, or stand behind, or would I ever make these claims? No, it is not what I believe. But, I can absolutely see where his intentions lay in such a claim. And it is becoming a stronger belief globally by the day.
But, what absolutely disgusts me is how you turn it around and compare the claims to Muslims. Republicans and Muslims could not be any more different. Muslim is a spiritual, religious belief. One that has faced major discrimination by Republicans. Republican is a political point of view, a choice, not a holy belief. I think you should rephrase your question to: What would you say if Mark Spencer said it is a ‘myth’ that there is no such thing as a good National Socialist? The fact that you can even compare Republicans to Muslims in such a way says a lot about the type of person you are.
I am not embaressed by anything Ive had to say, but I think it be appalling to share a conversation with you any further.
“Show me the data that says x amount of readers stopped buying Marvel comics because of a, b, and c writers social commentary. Versus y amount of readers that purchased comics by a, b, and c writers to support them. Please, don’t go claiming numbers and data that doesn’t exist.”
You really are the master of the Straw Man argument, aren’t you? Let me break out my personalized study of the comic industry to give you specific data on the effect that partisan writers are having on this issue. Oh, wait, I can’t do that. But I certainly can show you plenty of stories on the sales decline over decades. And I can point to my regular readers who explicitly say that they’re dropping Marvel for the reasons I mentioned. Again, you’re making a fool out of yourself, Green Onion.
You called me a “bully.” You said I was “shoving” my opinions down your throat…but yet you keep coming back. How strange!
“I make a valid point that you are doing exactly what you are condemning these writers for. If you want to call them bullies you need to take a long look at what you are doing.”
I’m really not. You just do not seem to be able to differentiate between an honest debate (one where you’re badly losing), and mean-spirited attacks that demonize millions of good Americans as bad people, racists, and “Neo-Nazis.”
“You know when I lost all respect for anything you have to say here. Its when you asked me, “So do you acknowledge that it is disgusting for Nick Spencer to say “good” Republicans do not exist? What would you do if Nick Spencer said it is a “myth” that there is such a thing as “good” Muslims?”
There are so many things going wrong here I don’t even know where to begin.”
You “lost all respect” because of that question? Weird. Again, I’m glad my readers can see all of this. I’m confident that when they compare your behavior to mine they will … really just feel sorry for you.
“It is a loaded question because no matter how I answer you’re baiting me in for an argument. I clearly didn’t want to get into this but you would not let up, bully.”
You should realize that just because you call me a bully — on my own blog, which you willingly continue to comment on despite the claim that I’m “forcing” my opinion down your throat — it doesn’t make it true. The real truth here is that you can’t swallow your pride and just admit that you offered a shoddy argument in a forum where shoddy arguments are routinely exposed and destroyed.
“Fact: Majority of the world fear the American Republican more than any other party, group or class than any other. They are dangerous, and majority of the world classify them as evil. What Waid is saying is that anybody who would willingly label themselves a republican align there beliefs and values with those of racists, misogynists, sexists, and what have you. To everybody except republicans that would be classified under ‘bad’, as in not good.”
Thank you! Thank you so much, Green Onion. I knew that all I had to do was keep the conversation going for you to reveal your true self. Bravo! Bravo, young man!
“Do I agree, or stand behind, or would I ever make these claims? No, it is not what I believe. But, I can absolutely see where his intentions lay in such a claim. And it is becoming a stronger belief globally by the day.”
Yes! Please, keep going! I love it! Can you feel the anger! This is so Return of the Jedi… Oh, Luke Onion … errrm, I mean Green Onion … Why? Why did you have to give in to your anger?! It didn’t have to be this way.
“But, what absolutely disgusts me is how you turn it around and compare the claims to Muslims. Republicans and Muslims could not be any more different. Muslim is a spiritual, religious belief. One that has faced major discrimination by Republicans. Republican is a political point of view, a choice, not a holy belief. I think you should rephrase your question to: What would you say if Mark Spencer said it is a ‘myth’ that there is no such thing as a good National Socialist? The fact that you can even compare Republicans to Muslims in such a way says a lot about the type of person you are.”
Three cheers for Green Onion! Honesty! It was only a matter a time before you could contain yourself no longer and lash out with your true feelings. Let it all out. The truth shall always be exposed in the end.
I do find it quite odd that you feel as though joining a political party is a “choice,” but being a Muslim is an involuntary “holy belief.” Strange. Here’s a suggestion for you: Do a little research on what happens to Muslims in the Middle East and Africa when they renounce the faith and become Christians. Come back and let us know what you’ve found out…
“I am not embaressed by anything Ive had to say, but I think it be appalling to share a conversation with you any further.”
Good. I want everyone to see this conversation. This one will go down in history as one of my favorite blog exchanges because it has been oh-so-revealing. Again, thank you.
“What I said is “For every one that drops them because they disagree with their opinions, they may gain one that does. ”
“Show me the data that says x amount of readers stopped buying Marvel comics because of a, b, and c writers social commentary. Versus y amount of readers that purchased comics by a, b, and c writers to support them. Please, don’t go claiming numbers and data that doesn’t exist.”
With that sir you are wrong, the numbers for Marvel have been in decline. If you do not think public image and perception matter I suggest doing some research. As a business and academic professional I can tell you for a fact that it matters. I suggest that you just go to a few local comic shops and ask them as well you may be surprised, I can tell you that several in my area have had clear indications that the employees behavior at Marvel have had a negative impact. I can also tell you that many comic readers I know have also quit reading Marvel due to the behavior of the writers, and some of them are liberals that are sick of the overly pushed agenda and ridiculous behavior. Also to be fair it is relatively simple that you do not anger your market, look at any retailer or business and see what happened when they came out with a public opinion that angered many, in most cases “not all” it has had a negative impact. Just to get you started look up Target or Pepsi and see what has occurred with them.
“But, what absolutely disgusts me is how you turn it around and compare the claims to Muslims.”
You missed the point entirely, the writers claim to be tolerant while being intolerant. The writers pick and choose who they can point their own intolerance at while hiding under the guise of a tolerant person. The writers have been complete hypocrites. For some people, such as you that seems to be okay, but for the many it is unfairly pointing the finger at it is not. It does not matter what the method of discrimination is, it is the discrimination that is wrong, but for some such as yourself as long as it is pointed in a direction that is not at you or your family it seems fine.
Green Onion, I think you’re misunderstanding the point of this post/video and that misunderstanding is what’s causing this debate. This isn’t about free speech, it’s about professionalism.
It’s fine for Mark Waid and Dan Slott to have their own opinions and it’s their right as Americans to express those opinions however they see fit, whether on twitter or anywhere else. I’ll totally support that and I think that Doug would too. What I think Doug is trying to draw attention to is the fact that Slott & Waid routinely engage their own fans/customers in bizarre debates and then slime them with unfair accusations and ad hominem attacks just for stating, “I don’t agree with you.” He’s also pointing out that behavior like that can be bad for business. I’m an example of a customer who was turned away by the writer-activists at Marvel and the constant negativity they bring to my twitter feed and elsewhere. (Dan Slott is the only person I’ve ever unfollowed on twitter, which I did because I just couldn’t stand seeing him clog up my feed with each day’s new argument…because, trust me, every day is an argument with Dan Slott.)
Surely there are people on the internet who are unhinged racists and psychopaths and just because you’re a person with some status in society doesn’t mean you should have to let those people talk to you however they want, but there are plenty of people with a much higher degree of celebrity than comic book writers (who encounter a much greater amount of hatred as a result) and still handle those situations in a professional manner. In terms of their own peers, compare the antics of Waid, Slott, Nick Spencer or Greg Rucka with the professional (but still fun) behavior of guys like Greg Capullo or Charles Soule and after following them all for about a month tell me who seems like the more likable guy you might want to support with your money.
TL:DR – No one is saying Mark Waid & Dan Slott should have the freedom to express their own opinions. Just remember that as customers we also have the right to express our disappointment with someone’s behavior by not giving them our money or attention.
“It’s fine for Mark Waid and Dan Slott to have their own opinions and it’s their right as Americans to express those opinions however they see fit, whether on twitter or anywhere else. I’ll totally support that and I think that Doug would too. What I think Doug is trying to draw attention to is the fact that Slott & Waid routinely engage their own fans/customers in bizarre debates and then slime them with unfair accusations and ad hominem attacks just for stating, “I don’t agree with you.” He’s also pointing out that behavior like that can be bad for business.”
Yep. I’m not sure why anyone would respond to my post with “But…free speech!” It’s like, “No duh, Green Onion. That wasn’t the point. Now let’s talk about the point.” But…he doesn’t want to do that for some weird reason. And then he wants to act incredulous that I would require people in the comments section to actually talk about the point of the blog post. Sigh…
And yes, good point about Charles Soule. I have been impressed so far regarding how he handles himself on social media.
My problem with this article and video was never that Doug said that these artists should not be speaking their minds.
It’s that:
a) he is making claims that these comments have anything to do with the decline of comic sales. That is unfounded, dishonest, speculatory, and biased. Comic sales have been on the decline long before the election, long before writers like Slott were even involved with Marvel. Like I stated, for every reader Marvel loses because somebody doesnt agree with these writers personal opinions they gain one that supports them.
b) the whole thing is one-sided. Not showing any of the attacks that were made on these writers for them to retaliate with the remarks they made.
To call their actions unproffesional doesnt seem right either. They are writers, their job is social commentary, thats literally what they do. I appreciate that Doug was not making any stand on free speech, but that is an underline issue isnt it. When writers like Chelsea Cane are facing such backlash over a t-shirt slogan, the whole fan versus writer internet commentary has to be looked at. A good writer is going to have radical beliefs and a strong voice. As consumers we are free to support whom ever we see fit. But saying that because a few writers have opinions and a voice that a certain select group disagree with is the cause of slow sales for a publishing company as large as Marvel is ridiculous.
“But saying that because a few writers have opinions and a voice that a certain select group disagree with is the cause of slow sales for a publishing company as large as Marvel is ridiculous.”
You may be having some reading comprehension problems, Green Onion. Let me help you out.
I said: “The modern American comic book industry is a shadow of its former self. There are numerous reasons for this, but one contributing factor is the emergence of activist-writers.”
In Green Onion’s world, calling half of your potential customer based bad people and “Neo-Nazis” does not contribute to a loss in sales. Again, good luck with that argument. Never mind all the readers who come here on a regular basis who validate every single one of my claims. Multiple people have already confirmed it in this thread alone. I’m looking forward to Carl’s input.
“When writers like Chelsea Cane are facing such backlash over a t-shirt slogan, the whole fan versus writer internet commentary has to be looked at.”
There was much more to that situation than was reflected in your statement. She wrote a book with poor sales, some due to the heavy handed political agenda of the book.
The book was cancelled and she tried to use it for a feminism platform and she was called out on it. She pushed an agenda, people pushed back, she could not handle it.
Once again, it is business 101 that you do not attack your audience. Sales declines do go down due to public opinion, that is why companies have PR people. Really for your own good you need to do some research.
Here to get you started:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/19/target-earnings-drop-protests-rise/
http://www.businessinsider.com/target-boycott-impact-on-sales-2016-5
It matters, to think it does not is ignorance.
I actually think free speech is an issue for Waid and Slott. Their behavior is the very definition of people who feel offended that people with certain opinions (you know…racists and misogynist people, like anyone that would tell Waid or Slott they are wrong, or need to take a chill pill) are allowed to speak in a free society.
You know what Doug? Mark and Dan have a right to say what they want on twitter! (LOL)
Like Mark said once:
I don’t even need to know that Mark said that. If you do the math (SJW+loud angry beta male) the answer will be: of course he thinks it’s ok to censor you.
I can’t imagine following Donald J Trump on twitter, and I surely couldn’t imagine following any left wing psycho…as much as I feel their right to blather on twitter should be protected.
But the activist writers do! You know why? because they have some vain hope that they can gather enough of a media storm over this or that comment…some day….to get people banned or punished in some way in social media.
These guys hate free speech. Their intellectual ancestors hate it. They hate you. They actively look for, find, regurgitate things that offend them to censor it or at least cause full scale angry protests toward it from their followers. A majority of time this opinion is far from anything cruel or inhumane, it’s almost always a voting preference or ideological stance.
The blocking happens when they realize they can’t win and move on to another target. This is activism, it’s unhealthy, unprofessional behavior that hurts their medium and makes targets that are fans uncomfortable or feel rotten. It is the proper use of free speech to point it out and embarrass these people.
“The blocking happens when they realize they can’t win and move on to another target. This is activism, it’s unhealthy, unprofessional behavior that hurts their medium and makes targets that are fans uncomfortable or feel rotten. It is the proper use of free speech to point it out and embarrass these people.”
I had to laugh yesterday when one of my YouTube viewers, Calvin, said that Dan Slott blocked him on Twitter for retweeting one of my blog reviews. Haha! Dan is literally scouring the internet for people read my blog and then blocking them on Twitter.
These are writers where their ego and political agenda is greater than their faux celebrity status as comic book writers.
They obviously don’t have an awareness of the variable age group within their fan base and how it may affect or influence a young reader.
They need to start acting responsibly online and be made accountable for their deplorable behaviours online.
I work as a professional for a government organisation. If I were to behave that way online, my boss would fire me in a flash.
“I work as a professional for a government organisation. If I were to behave that way online, my boss would fire me in a flash.”
Bingo. My guess that Green Onion is young enough to still work at a job where he can tell random people to “f**k off” like Mark Waid, because otherwise he would be able to quickly acknowledge that a.) it’s unprofessional, and b.) something that employers would not tolerate because they do not want their reputation tarnished, sales to decline, etc.
“I dont know, since when is it not okay for artists and creators to have opinions. Heck, if they stopped we would have bigger problems to deal with. ” – Green Onion
It’s ironic to see someone in here defending Mark Waid on the basis of free speech Mr. Waid himself doesn’t care so much for the notion.
I had an exchange with him a few years back in a comments section regarding the push to blacklist Orson Scott Card from the comic book industry due to his views on gay marriage. Mark Waid was all for it.
It was at that point, it became very hard for me to enjoy anything written by Mark Waid. I had really enjoyed alot of his work before then, but I haven’t bought anything he has written since. Doesn’t mean I think he should be blacklisted, though. But I do believe his hypocrisies and hate-filled views should be exposed and rebuked.
“It’s ironic to see someone in here defending Mark Waid on the basis of free speech Mr. Waid himself doesn’t care so much for the notion. I had an exchange with him a few years back in a comments section regarding the push to blacklist Orson Scott Card from the comic book industry due to his views on gay marriage. Mark Waid was all for it.”
Thanks for brining all this up, Andrew. Indeed, anyone who follows these guys for the least bit of time will soon realize that their “tolerance” for free speech only applies to speech that comports with their worldview.
It’s also free speech to point out that Mark Waid and Dan Slott have an established history of being bigoted, ignorant, abusive, and foul-mouthed. Why don’t they try criticizing themselves for once in their lives, instead of others?
You summed up why I left the Marvel fold.
Green Onion, if you don’t like what Doug has to say, then leave. It’s that simple. Go to some blog that reflects your beliefs.
“Green Onion, if you don’t like what Doug has to say, then leave. It’s that simple. Go to some blog that reflects your beliefs.”
Great timing, Carl. I literally just typed that I was looking forward to your response. According to Green Onion, guys like you do not withhold your cash when writers like Nick Spencer calls you a bad person, or when Mark Waid calls you a Neo-Nazi. It apparently has zero effect on sales to demonize tens-of-millions of Americans on social media. Heh.
“Great timing, Carl. I literally just typed that I was looking forward to your response. According to Green Onion, guys like you do not withhold your cash when writers like Nick Spencer calls you a bad person, or when Mark Waid calls you a Neo-Nazi. It apparently has zero effect on sales to demonize tens-of-millions of Americans on social media. Heh.”
Good thing I just logged on. Been writing most of the afternoon. Ha. Yeah, stuff like Spencer’s “there is no good Republican” comment or Waid’s “Go f***k yourself” and his comments comparing Trump supporters to Neo-Nazis is what has driven me away from contemporary comics, Marvel in particular. That is unprofessional behavior. That is disgusting. Why would I give these clowns my money, if they’re going to treat people they disagree with like that? If they worked any other job, they would be fired. Trust me. Even that lunatic Starbuck’s barista from down South got fired after she went on Twitter and claimed she would spit in customers’ cups if they asked her to write Trump on the cup. Do Marvel and Disney even pay attention to what their employees are up to?
One of the reasons Marvel’s comics sales are tanking is because of their writers’ unprofessional behavior. If people like Green Onion were to step out of their liberal bubble every now and then, they’d see that a lot of potential customers feel the way I do and have stopped buying modern comics from Marvel in particular. I can’t support a group of close-minded people who constantly tell me how “evil” I am or call me a “Neo-Nazi.” Imagine if Waid, Slott, et al tweeted stuff like that at Obama. I can already see Twitter users suffering a collective meltdown and demanding their heads on a plate.
Speaking of Green Onion, I think he needs to calm down and listen to Booker T and the MG’s for a bit:
“Speaking of Green Onion, I think he needs to calm down and listen to Booker T and the MG’s for a bit.”
Agreed!
I like how he comes into the comments section, refuses to talk about the issue at hand, complains that I’m a “bully” who is “shoving” my opinions down his throat … and yet he keeps coming back again and again and again.
Green Onion is like a guy who weirdly slams his face into a stranger’s fist and then accuses the stranger of assault and battery 😉
Glad you liked the video!
“I like how he comes into the comments section, refuses to talk about the issue at hand, complains that I’m a “bully” who is “shoving” my opinions down his throat … and yet he keeps coming back again and again and again.”
He has the option of not commenting, but he keeps coming back over and over again. It’s like he enjoys having it handed to him repeatedly. He must a glutton for punishment or something.
“Green Onion is like a guy who weirdly slams his face into a stranger’s fist and then accuses the stranger of assault and battery😉”
Ha ha! He’s doing what many trolls do: play the victim. Next thing you know he’ll be off the store to buy a safety pin. Maybe a Spider-Man themed safety pin, if you catch my drift.
“He’s doing what many trolls do: play the victim.”
He seems pretty young. Maybe 18-22? I sort of feel bad for him, but at the same time I tried to warn him. My guess is that over time he will see the difference between how I dealt with him and how guys like Mark Waid would respond in a similar exchange.
Every year we have a different retelling of the same story. There was Lizard19, Emmanuel, X-MenExpert, and now Green Onion. 🙂
And seeing as he thinks that Republicans are “evil,” I think he and Spencer would get along pretty well.
“And seeing as he thinks that Republicans are “evil,” I think he and Spencer would get along pretty well.”
The whole exchange was rather telling, but his true thoughts on “American Republicans” was a great reveal for anyone who didn’t quite understand what was going on. I’ve been blogging long enough to know that if you play your cards right … the truth will make itself known with guys like that. On the surface he just feigns concern about free speech issues, but when you press him he spills the beans that he thinks “American Republicans” are to be feared the world over.
Boom. Case closed. Thank you for playing and good night, Green Onion.
“Every year we have a different retelling of the same story. There was Lizard19, Emmanuel, X-MenExpert, and now Green Onion.🙂”
You’re developing your own rogues gallery, Doug! Ha ha!
“You’re developing your own rogues gallery, Doug! Ha ha!”
I might have to commission an artist one of these days to do up a mock comic book cover with “Lizard” and the others surrounding me. Haha.
Emmanuel’s time in the penalty box is technically over, but at this point I think I’ll just keep him there. It’s been nice not having to deal with his drama.
“I might have to commission an artist one of these days to do up a mock comic book cover with “Lizard” and the others surrounding me. Haha.”
That would be hilarious! Ha ha!
“Emmanuel’s time in the penalty box is technically over, but at this point I think I’ll just keep him there. It’s been nice not having to deal with his drama.”
I agree. That kid has some issues, and that’s putting it mildly. I’ll never forget him calling me “sexist” for disagreeing with him about Wonder Woman. I’ll never forget him telling me that I had no right to complain about the state of the comics industry because “you don’t have a script written or NUTHIN'” (his exact worlds). That’s hilarious, because I finished a book this past summer and am working on another one. I suppose his response would then be “you don’t have it published or NUTHIN’.”
It’s a pity I never archived any of my old blog posts. Some of Emmanuel’s meltdowns in the comments section there were pretty funny… in a sad, pathetic sort of way. Like your friend said, it’s amazing how he wanted to collaborate with me on a project (which I thought was weird seeing as I’ve never met him in person) then attacks me for having a different opinion.
Hmm … for one who demanded Doug provide evidence that creator politicking has led to a comics sales decline, perhaps YOU could provide evidence of THIS “fact”?
In the mind of Green Onion, these are the last thoughts of the gay men being thrown off buildings in Syria by ISIS: “At least I didn’t have to deal with Mitch McConnell! I hate American Republicans! Why?!”
Sigh… young liberals… always predictable…
*Cough* anyway, back to topic. There are indeed many factors that’s causing the steady decline of “traditional” comics, and sadly I think this is the main reason why guys like Waid and Slott are no longer in the mindset of genuine class & creativity… instead contenting themselves with getting away with as much tasteless crap as they can possibly get until the printing press stops for good. It’s pathetic, I know, but that’s what happens when you continue to employ scribes who’ve obviously long burned out of ideas rather than steadily recruit new, passionate talent like Charles Soule. Ah, that man and his ever witty, creative writing… definitely miles above Brian Borefest Bendis and his “everyone talks like a teen” scripts.
It’s been discussed time and again that Marvel is now completely banking their futures on the MCU, while the comic-verse has been reduced to nothing more than a dying footnote, plagued by partisan hacks and their equally obnoxious bosses like Tom Brevoort.
The optimist in me wishes people could just be more respectful and just “agree to disagree”.
The fact is that it takes a variety of political ideologies to form a successful society. Maybe your government of the day is economically conservative but socially progressive? If a government (including the opposition) had a single ideology it would disastrous. It’s actually really important that a government of the day has people representing the variety of different ideologies that make up modern society (even if they are in opposition/minor parties).
Opposing political ideologies exist so that our political beliefs are always challenged. When political beliefs are not challenged, it leads to stagnation and corruption. The reality is no political party (or ideology) is the good guy or bad guy. If anything, all political parties are kinda the bad guy lol.
It’s kind of sad that people like Dan Slott don’t get this. Political beliefs should be challenged, not demonised or censored. This is probably one of the reasons why we terrible comic book storylines nowadays.
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/marvel-comics-desperation-mode-sending-free-comics-retailers
This makes their desperate bid for sales all the more hilarious.
Since I don’t follow Twitter, the idea that people in the comics industry being rude online could be a factor with declining sales was not something that I’d considered, but I can see how that could work. I do have a few questions about your argument, reasoning and the subject in general:
Which sales numbers are we talking about in this example? As I understand it, there are essentially two kinds of sales numbers, the number of comics that the stores buy and the number of comics that the stores actually sell to customers, and the numbers can be used to support different results, depending on how the argument is framed.
Are there any connections we can we see and verify between online posts of comic authors (and others) and consumers comic buying habits? I’m trying to politely ask how you came to your conclusion and what evidence there is to support it. Based on how you presented your case in the video, my understanding is that you believe that this can backed up with data of some kind and you are not just speculating on a possible cause. Where could the average netzin to look for themselves to see how things stack up?
You mention that the sales are low in general. In your estimation, how much higher do you think they should be? To put it another way, exactly how bad do you think the situation is right now?
Are there any other factors that could be or are also contributing to low comic book sales? Assuming so, how big a factor would you say the Twitter feeds are in the problem?
“Which sales numbers are we talking about in this example? As I understand it, there are essentially two kinds of sales numbers, the number of comics that the stores buy and the number of comics that the stores actually sell to customers, and the numbers can be used to support different results, depending on how the argument is framed.”
Pick any numbers you want and then lets start looking at trajectories over the course of, say, the last 20 years. What has the trajectory been? Answer: Down.
Okay. So now the question becomes “Why?” There are numerous reasons for that (e.g., better videos games, superhero movies, a culture that increasingly has an aversion to … reading anything longer than 140 characters), but one reason — again, one reason — is the blatantly hostile attitude of creators towards fans.
“Are there any connections we can we see and verify between online posts of comic authors (and others) and consumers comic buying habits? I’m trying to politely ask how you came to your conclusion and what evidence there is to support it. Based on how you presented your case in the video, my understanding is that you believe that this can backed up with data of some kind and you are not just speculating on a possible cause. Where could the average netzin to look for themselves to see how things stack up?”
I’m willing to bet that almost every single person reading this blog has heard some variation of “the customer is always right” since they were a kid. We know that the customer can be a jerk (especially if you’ve worked retail), but the underlying message is that you do not want to tick off the customers because that will have an adverse effect on sales. It is downright bizarre to me to see people in the movie industry and the comic industry act as if calling tens-of-millions of their potential customers “Neo-Nazis” and bad people, etc., is somehow irrelevant to sales declines. Common sense dictates there must be some correlation. At this point we just have to figure out its size. I would argue that the industry is in dire straits, so needlessly angering fans seems to be an easy fix to take that number off the table.
Are you honestly telling me with a straight face that Republican readers witness Nick Spencer saying it is a “myth” that Republicans can be good people, and that Republican readers would not walk away? Why do you think there is that line attributed to Michael Jordan “Republicans wear shoes, too” when he was asked during his career why he wasn’t more political? It’s common sense.
I write this blog in my spare time. I’m not going to commission a polling company to conduct a professional poll of comic readers for $50,000 or whatever. If you want some data points, why don’t you go through the six years of blog posts here and ring up a list of every unique individual who outright says or implies they will buy less comics because of the creators’ behavior? Then try to ascertain how many people those individual commenters are giving voice to since there are plenty of comic customers who have walked away in silence.
Or, why don’t you start a blog. Run it for six years, and then on the back end of WordPress you can see all the search terms people use to land on your website. You’ll see that there are plenty of readers who do not like being called names by the likes of Dan Slott, Mark Waid, Nick Spencer, and others.
Why don’t you go through YouTube reviews and count all the individual accounts of people who say exactly what they’re saying on this blog? Just keep counting. It will take hours of work, but you will start ringing up hundreds and then thousands of of individuals. Then think about the cascading effect that has on the industry. Imagine 10 people, or 100 people, or 1,000 people, or 10,000 people who are not buying comics and all the friends they will never turn to and say, “Dude, you should check out Marvel these days. It’s really good.”
“You mention that the sales are low in general. In your estimation, how much higher do you think they should be? To put it another way, exactly how bad do you think the situation is right now?”
The media said there was no way Donald Trump would win the U.S. presidential election. They were shocked when he won. They said, “Wow, there must be a lot of angry people out there that we didn’t know existed.” Yep. And many of those people buy comic books — or at least they did before activist-writers started acting like the same politicians who scoff at them.
I don’t know the exact number, but I know that myself and the many people who read this blog every single month are tired of being called “Neo-Nazis” by guys like Mark Waid and his friends. If you cannot see, or refuse to see, how that is bad for business — if you refuse to accept that very common sense premise — then there isn’t a whole lot to talk about.
“Are there any other factors that could be or are also contributing to low comic book sales? Assuming so, how big a factor would you say the Twitter feeds are in the problem?”
Yep. I mentioned a few above. A proliferation of comic book movies and video games, coupled with a culture that increasingly does not like to read…doesn’t help. It’s going to be a harder sell with younger people. Guys like me — who grew up reading comic books — are a gold mine for Marvel. I’m 37 years old and would happily read for another 50 years if God grants me that. But I won’t read if people call me a “Neo-Nazi.” I won’t read if people rhetorically spit on me on a daily basis. And I won’t read if someone says that it is a “myth” that anyone who votes for a Republican can be a good person.
It’s hard to accurately estimate sales, since on-line statistics only record what the shops ordered from the companies, not what the shops actually sold to customers (though you have to assume some some sort of parity, since shops are not going to waste thousands of dollars on product that doesn’t move). The companies do whatever they can to artificially boost sales, with variant covers and unique sales deals offered only to the shops (“buy extra of X, and we’ll give you 20% off on Y”). In addition, the two big companies withhold their digital sales numbers, probably for competitive reasons (don’t let the other guys know how you’re doing), and they only publish subscription numbers on each series once a year. There are people who are very critical of Marvel (like the Spider-Man Crawlspace crew) who nevertheless subscribe to Marvel Unlimited.
Don’t forget there are also a lot of buyers who, unlike us, don’t care what Waid and Slott act like, as long as the buyer likes their work. And a certain portion (like Green Onion) hold their same hateful, inflamed views. A great deal of comic books these days are amoral, uber-violent, and/or pornographic, so the spoutings-off of Waid and Slott seem like a tame sideshow. So I don’t think there is a way to quantify the effect that Waid and Slott’s ranting has on sales.
Also, there are writers who are widely regarded by fans as nice people, or at least who interact well on-line, but whose series don’t sell too well. For example, Cullen Bunn comes off like a personable guy, and he gets work consistently, but I don’t think his series have sold like hot-cakes. Some of the most disturbed people have been America’s most popular and influential writers, right? What would Edgar Alan Poe have been like on-line, in the modern day? It almost staggers the imagination.
I’m not saying it has no impact. I’m sure it does. Look at what happened to the new film, Birth of a Nation, as people re-discovered and focused on the past rape accusations against the director? Hollywood’s hypocrisy came gushing out, as many tried to excuse or cover it up in the name of art (like they do for Woody Allen or Roman Polanksi). But I think if a writer builds up a negative view of himself over time, and that disapproval really sets in, it will suppress sales. There are obnoxious actors that a lot of people just will not watch because of their dislike of that actor. Alec Baldwin, for instance, or maybe Michael Shannon now (who recently said that all Trump voters ought to die and end up cremated in urns).
Sales numbers are a tricky thing, first you have the numbers that are sold to the stores (the numbers Marvel likes to use), and that makes since because that is how they make their money. The second factor is the tough on, how many of the issues sold in the stores. Some writers such as Slott try to push stores to ordering more copies, but the stores are not jumping in because if a Marvel book does not sell they are stuck with it. DC comics has a return policy which reduces the risk of ordering too many books. To get the actual sales is very hard, but one can get info by talking to comic shops or even observing the back issue bins. Then certain comic retailers and writers try to spin high sales numbers by saying “it is going back for a third printing”, yet you never know how big the original printing, that just says they did not accurately predict demand. One printing could be more copies than three printings. Ms. Marvel is a perfect example, they did small print runs rather than just one 100,000 issue run and then bragged that the print runs equaled high sales “seriously look at the sales numbers on that book they are not good”. This is marvel using classic marketing attempts to get attention much like television. Notice a “hit”show gets cancelled after one season, then ask yourself was it a hit? Marvel has been moving to a television model for selling comics, they know they can sell more #1’s so they keep restarting like television seasons, but it is getting diminishing returns.
Is the twitter behavior of writers the only cause for the decline in sales? No, there are many factors at play such as the high price “the historical price has went up significantly.”
https://thehenchmenslounge.com/2016/10/07/do-we-need-comic-books-in-traditional-retail-stores/
The lack of places a person can get a comic, think about how you have to go out of your way to get a comic today, they need more ways to get the books such as at grocery stores and gas stations.
https://thehenchmenslounge.com/2015/07/30/the-days-of-picking-a-book-by-the-cover-is-dead/
Competition for entertainment media, for example you can get a video game for $10 and get hours of entertainment, where a comic cost you $4 and you get 10 minutes. You could also compare this to a cost of a movie. Comics are pricing themselves out of business.
Overall sales are not good, anytime a company is doing massive givaways is a sign of potential trouble. Marvel considers a book that is selling in the 45,000 range as great and 30,ooo as good, where that was close to getting canceled a few years ago.
With all of those problems the last thing a company needs is a loudmouth pushing customers away when they need every last person they can get.
People like Slott and Waid should take some lessons from Dean Cain:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/12/06/dean-cain-donald-trump-2016-victory-hollywood-celebrities-not-accepting-result
Good stuff, Captain Frugal. I’m amazed that Cain still gets jobs from liberal Hollywood, ESPECIALLY Supergirl, one of the most liberal shows on TV right now.
I know, I like the show but they sure shove their propaganda in your face. The only thing from that show that I want shoved in my face is Supergirl.
“Pick any numbers you want and then lets start looking at trajectories over the course of, say, the last 20 years. What has the trajectory been? Answer: Down.
Okay. So now the question becomes “Why?” There are numerous reasons for that (e.g., better videos games, superhero movies, a culture that increasingly has an aversion to … reading anything longer than 140 characters), but one reason — again, one reason — is the blatantly hostile attitude of creators towards fans.”
Okay. (I actually forgot that that you already said that this was one of many factors until after I had submitted the post. Cue banging head on wall.)
“I’m willing to bet that almost every single person reading this blog has heard some variation of “the customer is always right” since they were a kid. We know that the customer can be a jerk (especially if you’ve worked retail), but the underlying message is that you do not want to tick off the customers because that will have an adverse effect on sales.”
Sounds about right.
“It is downright bizarre to me to see people in the movie industry and the comic industry act as if calling tens-of-millions of their potential customers “Neo-Nazis” and bad people, etc., is somehow irrelevant to sales declines. Common sense dictates there must be some correlation. At this point we just have to figure out its size. I would argue that the industry is in dire straits, so needlessly angering fans seems to be an easy fix to take that number off the table.”
Okay. Maybe the people being jerks are trusting too much in brand loyalty? (Just thinking out loud.)
“I don’t know the exact number, but I know that myself and the many people who read this blog every single month are tired of being called “Neo-Nazis” by guys like Mark Waid and his friends. If you cannot see, or refuse to see, how that is bad for business — if you refuse to accept that very common sense premise — then there isn’t a whole lot to talk about.”
In regards to that, I just like analyzing stuff I find interesting. (On a “Star Wars” forum, I have sometimes cited half a dozen different tie-in sources at once — often with pages references and exact quotes — to defend one or more interpretation from a single movie. It’s sad.). I find point-by-point cases on a topic fun to read, even if I already agree with the thesis, conclusion, and everything in between. So, my asking about what we can observe is not of the “I don’t believe you, prove it” position, but a “You got me interested; I’d like to hear more.” (I do understand you aren’t going to be conducting a serious investigation. So, if you’re saying that you’re basing your conclusions on what readers are saying, okay, that makes sense and answers the question.)
“Yep. I mentioned a few above. A proliferation of comic book movies and video games, coupled with a culture that increasingly does not like to read…doesn’t help.”
Funny thing for me is, every since comic I’ve ever gotten was because it was a tie-in to a movie or TV show I like or, in the case of “Spider-Man,” the movies and TV shows influence the comics I will read in that series.
“It’s going to be a harder sell with younger people. Guys like me — who grew up reading comic books — are a gold mine for Marvel. I’m 37 years old and would happily read for another 50 years if God grants me that. But I won’t read if people call me a “Neo-Nazi.” I won’t read if people rhetorically spit on me on a daily basis. And I won’t read if someone says that it is a “myth” that anyone who votes for a Republican can be a good person.”
I’ve gotten the impression that Marvel is mostly trying to target the newer readers. Not sure if they’re going about it the right way, though. I guess I fit into the newer category and I’d prefer to read about the classic characters and traditional settings, since that’s what the movies and TV shows have led me to expect. Not saying that comics should change themselves to totally resemble their adaptations, but I have a hard time imagining someone who liked the Marvel movies and was curious about the printed stories wanting to read about a world where Captain America is a HYDRA mole, there are two Iron Men who are not Tony Stark, Spider-Man is an off-brand Iron Man or a different character using the same handle, etc. (Granted, more of my interest is in the characters behind the costume than the mantles themselves, but, there it is.)
Jack, Captain Frugal, interesting stuff, there.
Thank you WebLurker, I always appreciate a compliment and a nice discussion:)
I think cost and accessibility are bigger factors than writer obnoxiousness. As was said, you can buy a paperback book at Half Price Books for $5, or the magazine aisle at Kroger, and get 5x the content as one comic book. And anyone used to be able to walk into a 7-11, or a magazine/news shop, or even the check-out line at the grocery store, and buy a comic. Now a kid would need to be driven to a specialty store like Hastings, or a comic shop (some of which can be a little skeevy).
“I think cost and accessibility are bigger factors than writer obnoxiousness.”
That may be true, but the two are also intertwined. There is an negative correlation between how nasty a writer gets and the amount I’m willing to pay for a book.
Looks like Slott felt the need to comment about hyper-partisan writers: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spcsig
He tried to compare them to writers taking on the Nazis in the 1940s and Stan Lee and Steve Gerber taking stances during the Silver Age, but to me that comparison falls flat. The key difference is that Slott and Waid are nasty, whereas Lee and Geber and the writers in the 1940s expressed their opinions in a respectful way. They didn’t demonize people who simply disagreed with them.
“Looks like Slott felt the need to comment about hyper-partisan writers.”
You’re right on the money, Carl. As usual, Dan Slott completely distorts the argument because deep down he knows that we are right. Whereas someone like Stan Lee called actual Nazis…Nazis, guys like Mark Waid call anyone who disagrees with them “Neo-Nazis.” It’s really not hard to understand. But again, Dan Slott has decided he does not want to be intellectually honest with readers.
One would think he would be more honest since Google exists. Blogs like this give people full context and honest debates. He just looks even more ridiculous when readers come here and realize they haven’t been told the truth.
“You’re right on the money, Carl. As usual, Dan Slott completely distorts the argument because deep down he knows that we are right. Whereas someone like Stan Lee called actual Nazis…Nazis, guys like Mark Waid call anyone who disagrees with them “Neo-Nazis.” It’s really not hard to understand. But again, Dan Slott has decided he does not want to be intellectually honest with readers.”
Nobody’s ever accused Slott of being the smartest kid in the room, that’s for sure. I think it’s both sad and pathetic that he continually reads your blog and makes vague comments about it on Twitter when he could do the adult thing and ignore you. Scouring the internet for negative comments about yourself is just weird.
That’s a big reason why he never comes here: he knows he’d get intellectually body-slammed. On Twitter, he has his safe space, where he posts ridiculous things and he gets attaboys from his fellow SJWs on there.
I guess Bleeding Cool’s been taking cues from Mark Waid. Take a look at the headline:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/06/neo-nazis-trying-boycott-rogue-one-star-wars-story-decent-human-beings-reply-k-bye/
“I guess Bleeding Cool’s been taking cues from Mark Waid. Take a look at the headline.”
In short, places like Bleeding Cool will spend the next four years looking through Reddit threads for anyone who is or appears to be a white nationalist, and then issue blanket statements about anyone who doesn’t agree with shoe-horning politically correct pap into movies.
Oooooh, you found a couple racist people on Reddit, Bleeding Cool? Bravo! When will Bleeding Cool go into some Islamic forums and then tee off on Muslims who blame the Jeeeeews for everything? Someone needs to call me when that happens.
A big difference is that Slott and Waid are almost always factually wrong, and that makes them ignorant and slanderers. I have a very low opinion of Donald Trump as a person, and felt he was (and is) massively under-qualified for the job. I didn’t vote for him or Hillary. I agreed with a lot of criticism printed against Trump by National Review. /However/, a ton of insane nonsense has also been spewed out about Trump by his critics. So, even though I dislike him, I also knew a lot of his critics were bed-wetting, disconnected-from-reality hysterics. Slott and Waid belong to that second group. They fantasize themselves as brave speakers of truth to power, when in reality they’re just two uneducated comic-book writers.
Speaking of Dan Slott, I don’t know if you’ve already done a post or video on this, but I’d love to see your thoughts on that recent twist in the Clone Conspiracy.
“Speaking of Dan Slott, I don’t know if you’ve already done a post or video on this, but I’d love to see your thoughts on that recent twist in the Clone Conspiracy.”
Hola, Conner. Thanks for checking in. I’ll be doing up a YouTube review soon. It will be up tomorrow night at the latest. It all depends on how early I wake up. 😉
“I guess Bleeding Cool’s been taking cues from Mark Waid. Take a look at the headline:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/06/neo-nazis-trying-boycott-rogue-one-star-wars-story-decent-human-beings-reply-k-bye/”
“In short, places like Bleeding Cool will spend the next four years looking through Reddit threads for anyone who is or appears to be a white nationalist, and then issue blanket statements about anyone who doesn’t agree with shoe-horning politically correct pap into movies.”
As someone who’s semi-active in the online “Star Wars” fanbase, that incident isn’t very surprising. The “Star Wars” fanbase has become pretty toxic and vitriolic these days ever since Disney bought the franchise and began producing their own material, whether it be complaints about perceived overboard PC-ness or irritation that the tie-in materials were rebooted, or complaints about the complainers. Frankly, I’ve found that the situation has sapped a lot of my fondness for “Star Wars” stuff I used to really like.
I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the “Clone Conspiracy” spoiler, Douglas, esp. since it’s about a piece of the “Spider-Man” franchise that’s not really part of the materials that I’m familiar with.
“I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the ‘Clone Conspiracy’ spoiler, Douglas, esp. since it’s about a piece of the “Spider-Man” franchise that’s not really part of the materials that I’m familiar with.”
Thanks, Weblurker. I was up late reading last night, which meant I didn’t get up early this morning. Haha. I plan on staying up as late as necessary to get a YouTube video up at a minimum. There was just so much to cover with this latest issue that it’s going to take me longer than usual.
Side note: I hope Green Onion takes a cue from you. We’ve had some pretty sharp debates over the past few months, but I think it’s obvious that neither of us harbor any ill will towards the other. Big boys don’t hold grudges and wipe the slate clean with each new debate. 🙂
Yesterday’s “twist” in Clone Conspiracy is deeply contradictory to {the character’s} past values. Unless it’s shown that something really bad happened to {the character’s} mind.
“To call their actions unproffesional doesnt seem right either. They are writers, their job is social commentary, thats literally what they do.”
No. I don’t think Green Onion understands anything about writing. A writer’s job is to entertain, not lecture and demonize potential customers for thinking differently than them.