Written by The New York Comic Con is on, which means that comic fans get to view internet photo galleries of beautiful Cosplay ladies dressed as Power Girl, and Peter Parker fans get to read Dan Slott interviews where he inadvertently telegraphs to the world what he really thinks of the character.
Caps-lock abusing Dan teased things to come for Superior Spider-Man this weekend, and his state of mind couldn’t be clearer. ‘The Superior Freaky Friday Spider-Man’ takes on the Green Goblin in the months ahead, but before they clash Dan Slott wanted to set the record straight for posterity: He is the guy whose editorial judgment was so sound he decided to let a megalomaniac use Peter Parker as a “meat puppet.”
CBR: We know what the Green Goblin meant to Peter Parker, but what does he mean to Otto Octavius?
Dan Slott: I don’t want to give stuff away. You’ll have to wait and see, but one thing to keep in mind is Doc Ock killed Spider-Man, took his life, and carried on. So he’s had the ultimate victory over Spider-Man.
When you look at the rankings, I’m sorry but everything he’s done from the “Dying Wish” arc of “Amazing Spider-Man” on moves him up in the rankings. Norman Osborn is like, “Ha! I threw your girlfriend off a bridge.” And Dock Ock could reply, “You know what? I RIPPED HIS BRAIN OUT OF HIS SKULL, PUT MY MIND INSIDE, AND WORE HIM LIKE A MEAT PUPPET! TOP THAT!” [Laughs] So at some point you go, “You know, I think Doc Ock might just be the #1 Spider-Man villain of all time.” It’s like, “Suck it Goblin!”
Slow clap for Dan Slott. He is actually proud of allowing Peter Parker to be treated like a “meat puppet.” If you take to blogs, twitter and other comic forums to voice displeasure with his Peter Parker meat puppetry, he mocks you. Question for long time Peter Parker fans: Did you ever think things would reach this point?
How do you top that? In Dan Slott’s mind, one would assume that making Peter Parker into The Green Goblin might be an option. There are probably all sorts of dastardly things one could do to Aunt May that could “top” it, but do we really want to go there? Anti-heroes are still, on some level, supposed to be heroes, and if Dan Slott thinks Doc Ock can exist as one in Peter Parker’s body for such an extended period of time, what now constitutes a villain?
Read the full interview and you can’t help but notice that Mr. Slott seems to have concluded that if he can’t generate sales by uniting all Spider-Man fans (those who love Peter Parker and those who really just want to see someone in the costume swinging around the city with spider-powers), he’ll do so by creating events that a.) have far-reaching implications for the entire Marvel Universe, and b.) tormenting readers. People filled with anger and people filled with inspiration can be moved to action, but it is much easier to upset readers than to uplift them — hence, Superior Spider-Man.
Again, the question becomes: Where do you go from here? At some point in time Peter Parker will have to come back, and a poor writer will have to figure out a way to undo the damage. Dan Slott’s work on Spider-Man is reminiscent of the woman who tried to restore a 19th-century fresco of Jesus and turned it into an abomination. The finished product isn’t popular because it is beautiful, but because it is so incredibly weird and bizarre.
Dan Slott is the Celia Gimenez of the comic book industry, even if he doesn’t realize it yet.
If you are a fan of Peter Parker, I high suggest taking to social media platforms to let your voice be heard. There are few comic book characters that can be considered American cultural icons, but Peter Parker is one of them. When the history books are recorded, it should be a mark of shame upon the creative team that allowed him to be treated like a “meat puppet.”
Douglas Ernst Blog 
It seems to me that Dan Slott has taken the mature treatment of Spider-Man into regressive infantile territory with Ren & Stimpy humor and delusions of grandeur concerning the megalomaniac SpOck.
I’ve been keeping up with this bordello by checking out my cousin’s set of SSM books and sadly to me it reads like a parody.
‘Parody’ is a very good word for it. I couldn’t agree more.
Funny you should mention Ren and Stimpy, Magnetic Eye…. that’s where that “genius” Slott got his start on comics.
Slott continues to prove that he is no true fan of Spider-Man. He (and Marvel as a whole) would rather piss long-time readers off through nonsense like SSM than actually tell interesting stories.
Thanks Carl, the Ren & Stimpy reference makes a lot of sense given the new cartoonish aesthetic of SSM.
Actually Magnetic Eye, the poor treatment of Peter has been going on long before Slott. Granted, I’m not sure anything has ever been this bad, but he’s the first nail in Peter’s coffin.
Yes, that’s true. Looking back at OMD/BND/OMIT are all pretty bad in my opinion. The Clone Saga, which I didn’t mind in the end is a masterpiece compared to the childish drivel published now.
I’m of the belief that the character never fully recovered from the dreadful Clone Saga of the 1990s… it’s been one awful story after another since then. The Final Chapter, Sins Past, The Other, Civil War, One More Day… and now SSM. Ugh.
I up and left during the Clone Saga, but then when things seemed like they might be getting on track I got most of the back issues. OMD/BND was just too much. I’m not buying the book any longer (although I have kept tabs) so at least my wallet has been spared by this over-the-top mess.
Sins Past was just wrong, but I did think overall enjoy Straczynski’s work. It’s one of those things where even when he erred, I respected what he was trying to do. I disagreed with him, but they were disagreements that could be “fixed” later on down the line and ultimately forgiven. Slott has just slathered so many layers of badness onto the character that I don’t even know where the next writer will start in the effort to clean things up.
I agree, although I wasn’t a big fan of Straczynski’s work. He had a few good ideas, such as making Peter a part-time teacher, but overall I wasn’t too fond of his run. You are correct in saying that what errors he made could’ve been fixed down the line, but unfortunately people like Quesada and Slott are more concerned with trampling all over the character.
“How do you top that? In Dan Slott’s mind, one would assume that making Peter Parker into The Green Goblin might be an option.”
Funny you should mention that, because one of the theories that’s starting to grow a bit of traction is that the Green Goblin we’ve been seeing in the pages of Superior Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. Or rather Peter in Norman Osborn’s body. After all, notice how Slott in the interview attempts at evasiveness whenever being asked if the Green Goblin is still Norman Osborn, or how he keeps on stressing how we haven’t seen the Green Goblin unmasked yet.
I think it’s seriously within the realm of possibility. I made reference to this in the comments section of one of my posts in September, and possibly a few other places:
This is one instance where I don’t want to say that I called it…
I feel like this is a bit off topic, but in case Slott does something as stupid as making it turn out that he is Peter in Norman’s body, I’m gonna go ahead and say, Peter as the Goblin King makes no sense. Unless he’s gone completely insane, Peter would not take in minions and Peter would not order/allow them to blow up MJ’s club with her inside it.
That said, Slott has proven to be a writer willing to ignore logic and common sense so it may very well still turn out that way.
Second, (I’ve already seen this argued on several forums) in response to Slott’s comment as to Ock’s superiority as a villain, Ock can never surpass Norman as a villain. With this story Ock only has one accomplishment on his resume, while Norman has one that’s several pages thick with solid/horrible accomplishments. As I saw one person put it, claiming Ock is the better villain for killing Peter is like arguing that if the Penguin killed Batman he is a better villain than the Joker.
Finally, I’ve been wanting to post this somewhere, but this whole story is starting to feel like a sad twist on the death of Captain America, where at the end it turned out the Red Skull was trying to steal his body. It’s the Spider-Man equivalence of the Red Skull winning, declaring himself a more patriotic Captain America, replacing the US military with Hydra, and reawakening the Nazi party under some new patriotically themed name in order to try to take over all of US politics.
The other thing is that readers know Dan Slott made Peter go out as a punk — twice. Fans know that Peter would never die the way he did if the author had a shred of reverence for the character, and so on some level they will always reject it. I can’t give “Ock” credit for the kill because the writer had to warp the characters so much to get his desired result. Going off that, think of how long the supporting cast had to act like dummies before really noticing that Peter wasn’t acting like himself…
It seems that Dan Slott is writing the stories that Dan Slott’s inner child wants to tell, as opposed to the stories that are best for the character. Anyone who is put in the captain’s chair when directing the Starship Spider-Man has a certain set of responsibilities. Indeed, with great power comes great responsibility. Yes, the creator is going to tell “their” story, but they can’t treat him like an action figure they had as a child. Just because you can do something with the character, it doesn’t mean you should.
Sticking with the painting metaphor, Dan Slott is finger painting but he sells himself as Jackson Pollock. And, to his credit, he’s convinced many people to buy his work. Kudos. But, again, that doesn’t mean all those people who purchased it actually got a work of art. I maintain that years from now they’ll look at Superior and say, “Crap. Finger painting. I can’t believe I paid for this.”
Also, be careful with the Nazi thing, Issac. If you’re not careful Dan Slott will call you a bad person.
Turns out “the ghost of Peter Parker” wasn’t Slott’s idea he wanted Peter’s first death to be nice and permanent so when his superiors told him you can’t have Spider-Man without Peter Parker he warped him further into the pathetic powerless clown and killed him again. As for the Green Goblin iv heard those theories its not particularly logical but as we’ve all been saying this is way past logic. I think we’ll see a sort of Goblin Royal Flush Gang. There is no way that Ock is the better villain than Osborn I’m sorry. Octavius succeeded in one of the most evil acts in the history of comics but it was to save his own skin. Norman Osborn is responsible for 90% of Peter’s torture before Dying Wish. Norman was the first to find out Peter’s secret identity, Norman killed Gwen, Norman also apparently had sex with Gwen, Norman faked his death and while his enemy was completely ignorant of him being alive for years he funded the Jackal’s cloning experiments and was responsible for both Clone Saga’s, Norman left behind many weapons and hideouts for successors who plagued Parker as well, Norman raised the Stacy Twins, Norman had Mayday kidnapped, Norman led the Scrier Cult and manipulated Judas Traveler, Norman’s legacy made his son so insane that he not only became a Goblin but also masterminded the whole Robot Parents thing, Norman led the Sinister Twelve, Norman was responsible for Identity Crisis, Norman tried to make Peter his heir, Norman hired Kraven to kill Peter, Norman was responsible for Dark Avengers, Dark Reign and all that other stuff I’m sorry but this is indeed very much like comparing the Joker to the Penguin and the fact that Slott says that Superior makes Ock the greater villain is acknowledging that he still is a villain! Iv been thinking about SSM 8 & 9 excuse me iv gotta vomit…
In 8 & 9 Otto has his ONE redemptive moment and Peter has his ONE “selfish” moment his first (I’m ignoring all of Dan’s out of context examples which I’m very familiar with from reading those stories years ago) after the death of his Uncle and its this one act that drives the nail into the shiny second coffin. Apparently this one act inverts everything these two are about ignores nd justifies the horrific “Commence Mind Wipe.” Give me a moment…
These writers don’t have any sense left in them regardless of the industry there in they don’t believe in good and evil and its quite clear from the events of the past few years Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Avengers, Avengers vs. X-Men, Superior Spider-Man, Avengers Arena to name a few that they are actively pissing on the audience that wants to see “good triumphing over evil” and trying to attract “lovers of violence” punks who just want “might makes right” There is not one aspect of Superior Spider-Man that has not been done before save it’s length and depravity. Was this story necessary? No there were hundreds left to tell. Did we need Dark Spider-Man? No there are plenty of dark Spider-Men Venom, Kaine and Miguel no alternative Spider-Man has ever worked before because Peter Parker IS Spider-Man not even Ben Reilly was accepted Miles only works because he is a younger politically correct clone of Parker. I never understood why the industry likes to alienate its readers maybe it revels in its perceived power I don’t know when the 90’s reboot and Ultimate comics first came out it was an attempt to shove old readers aside and attract teenagers. It is clear that some people in the Marvel camp have an active hatred of the character over the past decade or two I don’t know the exact reason maybe because Sony still has the movie rights? Maybe they don’t understand him? Or maybe just maybe rather than inspire them to greatness like his enemies the virtue, popularity and marriage of a character such as Peter has invited envy rather than endearment I don’t know what I do know is that I wont be satisfied with mere bones and that if Marvel went to such strange measures to resurrect a child of there blandest title FF #49 2002 then why can’t May come back in there Flagship title. Here are some quotes.
“Hey Doc I’m an arthropod you’re a cephalopod can’t we just get along?” Spider-Man
“We all wear mask but which is real the one that hides your face or the one that is your face?” Green Goblin
“It’s not who I am but what I do that defines me.” Batman
2 Timothy 3:1-5
3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
Keep shining your light folks Guardians of The Galaxy of all thing outsold SSM let’s keep it that way.
John 3:19-20
19 Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. 21 But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”
How can Slott not feel that his job comes with responsibilities when last year there was a freaking Joker Shooter? If he inspires the next one let the blood be upon his own head!
You touch on some very important points. I especially like that you caught the admission that Ock is not an anti-hero, but a villain posing as an anti-hero.
Here’s what I wrote a friend on the matter earlier today.
Alright as someone who did start picking up the book again during the Dark Reign saga (notably 590), with the exception of One Moment in Time, Amazing Spider-Man was just that, AMAZING. It had Peter at his roots just with an expanded cast. You still had him broke (actually more broke than ever), you had him stressed being on all the teams, you had his love life in shambles (though he did fuck buddy Black Cat, as expected of our favourite wall-crawler), AND you still had Jameson out to get him. And the stories of that time focused on his Rogues ALSO getting the short end of the stick as he was, Ock included. And little-by-little his life DID begin to come around and he went Big Time. And the Big Time stuff started off good, though did slip up once in a blue moon, and I loved Spider-Island. It was about 5 issues post-Spider-Island you can see Danno SlOctavius turning the car towards the cliff.
That’s depressing that the same guy who wrote Spider-Island is now the same assclown who writes this drivel and re-defines TROLL on the internet in more ways than one. Mind you from 590 to about 650, Dan Slott made perhaps a dozen books while most writing duties were that of Joe Kelly and Mark Waid (both fantastic writers.) The Gauntlet, SHED, American Son, Spider-Island, The Grim Hunt, all great Spider-Man stories.
So not EVERYTHING that became the fallout of OMD/BND was awful, there was just a 40-issue break before it got good again. But I hate less SlOck’s typical comments than I do the other guy’s comments: “People keep saying they miss Peter Parker, well now time to put your money where your MOUTH is!” gosh what a dick. I say Doug you should buy that AND the Marvel Knights: Spider-Man books JUST to stick it to them, mind you the Marvel Knights book is actually pretty good, if surreal.
The last money I spent on a Spidey book was the deplorable ASM #700, so when I saw the solicitations for some genuine Spider-Man books, I quickly put in a pre order at my local comic book store. 🙂
“Marvel Knights: Spider-Man” by Matt Kindt and Marco Rudy – so far so good
“Peter Parker: Spider-Man” by David Morrell, Klaus Janson and Joe Casey.
“Spider-Man Family Business,” by Mark Waid and James Robinson, with art by Gabirelle Dell’Otto.
I figure if enough people buy the Peter Parker/Spider-Man books, that perhaps Marvel will take notice. I certainly hope so, but then again Marvel will do want it wants to regardless.
If and when Peter does return as the Amazing Spider-Man, I would love to see an all new creative team at the helm.
I know I’m putting the cart before the horse, but the mind boggles as to what this book will be like. It seems the Silver Surfer will be travelling with a young female side kick, sort of like the Disney/Marvel version of Doctor Who.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?471332-NYCC-Slott-amp-Allred-Shoot-the-Cosmic-Curl-with-quot-Silver-Surfer-quot
When is Dan Slott going to do the Silver Surfer/Galactus mind switch?
It sounds like Marvel Knights is a winner. I might have to check it out…
And yes, they definitely need a new creative team. I think they’ve burned so many bridges with Peter Parker fans that getting a clean slate, if you will, would help out a lot.
LOL, looks like you beat me to that comparison, Doug. I didn’t see this part of the post initially.
And let’s see, space traveler with female companion…. so like Magnetic Eye said, Slott is ripping off Doctor Who? Yeah, real “original” there, Slott. Yeesh.
At this point Carl, the jokes pretty much write themselves. I think that one probably even ran through the head of most SSM supporters. 🙂
You make some pretty good points, Matt. I definitely kept tabs on the book, and there were times where I was like, “Okay, that kind of works.” I did like when he started working at Horizon Labs. I thought that was a great fit for Peter. I still think “Alpha” is an embarrassment… I guess what irks me is that at some point in time, with all of the history, it gets weird to have Peter be this “down on his luck” dude struggling to pay his rent. I think there are ways to honor the core of the character (and even bring in the “Parker luck” if you have to), while still moving him forward. Again, I liked it when he got the job at Horizon — and I liked it years ago when he became a teacher, and. Both were logical movies.
That is why there is a party of me that doesn’t want to support Marvel, if it’s the character I love. These guys are not professionals. They are petulant man-boys who someone got control of the wheel. It’s like they were picked on Flash Thompson-types in high school, and now that they’re in charge they’ve adopted personality trait of the teenage character. I also don’t like that they’re essentially saying, “Here, we’ll throw you a bone. Now crawl up to the table with your tail between your legs, quickly snag it, and then slink off. Maybe we’ll give you something else if you’re a good boy.”
Well, I don’t respond very well to bullies. If I buy Marvel Knights it will be because of guys like you and the thoughtful exchanges you’ve provided. Marvel is lucky they have fans like you who can play ambassador for them, because Slott and Wacker are completely clueless when it comes to fostering good will among fans who disagree with them.
Doug’s viewpoints of Dan Slott are something I agree 100% with. Unraveling the aftermath is similar to unraveling all the problems with Obama care, or the Democrat/Republican standoff. Let’s ask this question. Usually DC or Marvel copies a popular character. Look at Superman/Sentry, Green Arrow/Hawkeye, Mr. Fantastic/Plastic Man, etc. Why hasn’t any other Marvel, DC or Independent writer copied what Dan Slott has done? Perhaps it’s not as successful or earth shattering as Dan implies.
Silver Surfer with a human companion? Well, at least the fundamental essence of Norrin Radd hasn’t changed. It’s easy to create a new story arc where Silver Surfer travels alone.
If I buy a Dan Slott book, it’s not for his Spider-man rendition. It’s for Spider-man 2099 or Green Goblin vs Doc Ock, whenever that occurs. Otherwise, I’ll stick with online previews and Wiki summaries.
There are many ways in which Slott knows what he’s doing and executes (no pun intended) his plans to a tee. Like you said, you want to see Spider-Man 2099 or Doc Ock fight the Green Goblin. People get hooked and by into the “You have to read this! It’s going to change Marvel history!” carnival barker games. But at the end of the day, it’s the character who comes first. You start with Peter Parker and then build around that. All the decisions that are made hinge some variation of: “Is this moving Peter Parker forward?” If you’re just doing something to treat him like a “meat puppet,” then that’s the wrong answer.
As I mentioned above, Dan Slott’s approach to Spider-Man is more like a kid playing with his action figures than as a professional writer. It’s good to have a bit of that kid inside you, but when there is more kid than adult … you get Superior Spider-Man. You get temper tantrums on Twitter. You get strange outbursts and threats of legal action on comic book message boards. You get long-time fans who have largely cast off the company.
And now Slott’s gonna be allowed to wreak havoc on Silver Surfer…. what’s next, Galactus taking over his body? Ugh.
http://fourcolormedmon.blogspot.com/2013/10/dan-slotts-writing-superhero-whose.html
When is Dan Slott going to do the Silver Surfer/Galactus mind switch?
LOL … I thought the exact same thing when I heard Slott was getting the Surfer.
He’ll become the Superior Surfer. 😉
sound like slott’s ripping off doctor who..
Its interesting, I’ve just recently found out slott’s “against” guns, but he had no problem “superior” blowing someone’s brains out.. What a hypocritical peace of !@#!
Thanks for the comment, mgjscdhl. Yes, one would think that will all of his online activism, he’d refrain from having his “anti-hero” blow a guy’s face off from point-blank range… But hey, it sells — so it must be good (according to Slott).
That’s a nice loaded question, and I’m sure you ask a lot of them in this little echo chamber of yours, but what does it have to do with what I was talking about? My point was that it was stupid to think that someone who was pro-gun control was a hypocrite because he made a character you’re supposed to hate blow someone’s brains out.
According to Dan Slott, Otto is now an “anti-hero.” That’s the word that’s been floated around for months. He’s asked why Wolverine and Punisher could be “anti-heroes,” but not Ock. You’re ultimately supposed to root for an anti-hero because they still are, by definition, heroes. Are you saying that the Superior Spider-Man is a villain, then?
Funny how you say this is an echo chamber when … you’re here. Anyone who doesn’t like what I say is welcome here. Unlike the Marvel boards, I don’t ban people who ask hard-nosed questions.
Dan Slott is welcome to come here, but he’d rather take pot-shots from a distance or confront me on other boards over posts I did on Trayvon Martin.
In Dan Slott’s word, writer’s don’t influence culture. He can kill off Peter Parker (twice) and replace Spider-Man with a megalomanic who shoots his victim’s face off and it’s no big deal because it’s fiction. If you can’t see how his online activism, when juxtaposed with his baby SSM, is sadly hilarious, I can’t help you.
It isn’t hypocritical at all. If you believe you’re supposed to be rooting for Otto, then you’ve missed the point entirely.
Tell us when Hawkeye tried (and nearly succeeded) at murdering six billion people. How close was Hawkeye to piling up a mountain of six billion dead bodies upon the earth? Was that an annual? I think that sort of personality makes one a tad bit more than “annoying,” wouldn’t you? I think if anyone doesn’t “get” it, it’s Dan Slott.
Good news and bad news. The good news with Goblin Nation Marvel is renumbering SSM with a new #1 so soon after the series start that is a sign that there becoming more desperate to make sales with collectors keep at it people. The bad news is the announcement also means Parker almost certainly will not return in the first half of 2014 and if we don’t keep up the pressure we may have to wait till 2016. And of course Slott says “No one will be safe” because that’s sort of become a trademark now. My money is on him slaughtering what’s left of the supporting cast especially MJ because that would just be swell and if Peter is somehow the Goblin I bet we will see him get killed a fourth time. Why fourth? Because this is Slott were dealing with and Marvel’s having a crossover “Doc Ock” and the Abomination Vs. SSM, Hulk and X-Men.
They’re renumbering it with #1? Seriously? *rolls eyes*
Maybe they’ll have 10 different variant covers and one of them will be a 90s throwback hologram… Sigh.
Won’t they ever learn? That crap didn’t work in the ’90s and isn’t gonna work now, either. It just shows that they’re desperate for money.
And I love how the SSM fanboys think you’re too stupid if you don’t like the story and that you’re “missing the point” about it. And “echo chamber?” Hardly. There are plenty of people with different views who come here and Doug doesn’t ban them like Marvel’s boards do for simply disagreeing with him.
One of the reasons I started blogging on this subject more often was because of Marvel’s Orwellian messages boards (e.g., deleting comments that stung just a little too much, banning users). Echo chamber? The mod over at CBR started talking about me, and when I defended myself (from his initial comment and then Wacker and Slott’s double-team) the thread was closed. Newsarama wrote a piece about me, and when the author didn’t get his intended result, I was blocked. When strangers came to my defense — saying I did nothing to warrant the block — they locked the post from further comments.
Over at Comic Vine, the mod had to lock the thread when Dan Slott tried to turn a discussion on SMM into one on whether or not I was a “bad” and “immoral” person. Weeks later he started it up again and the mod had to put him in his place, saying quite forcefully to stay on topic. So who stifles debate? Who wants to live in an echo chamber? Me, or Dan Slott, who told his Twitter followers to block me — and asked them to come forward if they were open to considering my point of view — so that he could block them?
Like I said, I’m more than happy to talk about Superior Spider-Man with anyone. If you’re remotely respectful, I’ll engage you. Just don’t go full troll. Never go full troll.
The “no one will be safe” catchphrase has become a major comic book company cliche in recent years, especially in regards to crossovers, which are cheap publicity stunts stretched out through multiple titles and miniseries designed to make as much as dough as humanly possible, regardless of whether or not the story is actually good (it usually isn’t). They kill off characters, superheroes and supporting cast members, under the assumption that they’re “minor” and “no one will miss them.” But look at the outrage over the death of Lian Harper (the daughter of Green Arrow’s former sidekick Speedy/Red Arrow) in DC’s Cry for Justice, for example. Clearly people cared about her. That’s just one example.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Marvel decided to slaughter Mary Jane and other supporting cast members just to further piss people off. That’s all they do nowadays, troll fans and piss them off.
Someone has to do something if no one in this world even has the power to stop corrupt writers then what can anyone accomplish anymore? What does that have to say about the industry? They are ripping there own hearts out pissing on everything they’ve stood for and fighting whoever honors the old guard. If no one on earth has the power to stop them than everything that came before is for nothing. Guess were going to have to change the saying to Good always gets its ass handed to it by evil.
comicvine is just as bad as marvel.. Everytime the SSM discussion goes sour, slott comes in and asks them to shut it down, and they do. My ip has been banned on marvel.com.. Even though I try and stay respectful, and never resort to ad hominem attacks on slott himself. If they bury the problem, it doesn’t exist (to them).
Are they seriously renumbering SSM, already? Wow…
Thanks for disclosing that, mgjscdhl. It’s important for people to see what Marvel and some of these other sites are doing (and trust me, the WordPress stats tell me these posts bring in plenty of concerned Spider-Man fans).
We are of the mindset that a.) a comic can be more than a comic and b.) Spider-Man isn’t Dan Slott’s personal plaything. The character is bigger than him … and he has used Parker as a “meat puppet.” And because we are tactful and intelligent, we must be shut down. It’s shameful.
I have to say, #19 finally starts to move the ball upfield. For those of us who have not appreciated the aggressive and mean-spirited marketing tactics of Dan Slott, seeing a glimmer of the end game is remarkably satisfying. I have to scratch my head at the methods Slott uses. Anger to sell comics may actually be a new radical paradigm shift in marketing methodology, but it is still an incredibly destructive and short-sighted thing to do to a loyal fan base. I sincerely hope other writers don’t follow this example. If so, Slott can be “credited” with this tactic, as the originator of this new sales model. It isn’t enough that positive excitement and encouragement be used to sell comics, now we have fan rage to fuel the fires of sales. And I’ll be damned if it didn’t work, at least so far. We would all like to think that nothing but the return of Peter Parker kept readers buying the book, but it’s been more than that, and in this particular case, I reluctantly give credit where it’s due. But this also comes with a cost. The rift between SSM lovers and SSM haters. I suppose a split fan base has always been the nature of the beast, but I’ve never seen it used to sell comics before. It’s Machavellian, but only if it works. Otherwise it’s pathetic. Kudos to Slott. He made a rift in the fan base absolutely work for the company’s bottom line. And the sheeple? Baaah. We’ll be fine. Extolling the victory of OO as far as crowing about making PP a “meat puppet”… well, that’s further proof that Dan Slott either is a marketing genius, or someone who has absolutely no brain-to-mouth filter, a la Donald Trump and Charlie Sheen. Because that’s the sort of weirdness you keep inside your brain.
I’ll be traveling to Chicago this weekend, which means that I’ll be hitting up my favorite comic shop with my brother. I’ll check out #19. When all is said and done I’ll almost have to buy Spider-Man just to see how the next writer untangles this mess.
If he was a marketing genius who really loved the character, SSM wouldn’t be necessary. He’d be able to market uplifting fare that united all fans. I think he’s a pretty savvy marketer, but I honestly believe he doesn’t like Peter Parker. I think he likes Spider-Man (i.e., the costume and the powers), but don’t think he likes Peter. Saying (and laughing) at the “meat puppet” line is not indicative of a writer who does not love Mr. Parker.
Side note: I loved the Trump comparison. Spot on.
Lol. I never said he loved Peter. I believe he thinks of Parker as the tagalong kid brother he could never really get rid of because Mom insisted he go with you. Spider-Man is his favorite toy. Parker is a lead weight.
What I am wondering is the depth of how much we, as fans and readers, have been used to promote buzz. How much of this “angry mob” mentality was in actuality, a shrewd business move, and how much of it was Slott’s idea. It should enrage anyone to be used in such a fashion, and it makes us all another kind of “meat puppet”. We all literally are doing Slott’s job for him… and I hate being used like that.
In all honesty, if this is the case, I think using anger to sell the comic was a huge risk. It was either going to work well, or blow up in their faces. In their favor, they know the fanbase well and there would be the outrage and discussion, and it’s entirely likely if this was a planned strategy, that Slott’s online bullying, trolling, and suppression of contrary opinions could be part of it, rather than the insane rantings of an egomaniac with a pen. Time will tell which is the true Dan Slott, but neither persona is commendable. At all. His online behavior is reprehensible. I just wonder how much of his forum presence is fiction, and how much is the man. If you ever watched old movies, Slott is acting too much like a caricature. Like Snidely Whiplash, or Vincent Price in a horror film, or Adam West’s Batman… I’m starting to suspect a campishness to his posts, because nobody can be such an incredible jerk for so long. I’m starting to think he and Wacker are having a good long laugh at our expense because when we continue the debate on the travesty that is SSM, we are also doing all the heavy lifting!
On another note, you will definitely like a part of 19. The forums are already chatting about it if you don’t want to wait for Chicago… 🙂
Sorry if I was unclear on the “love” line. Slott talks about how he loves the character…but his actions indicate otherwise.
I think it’s interesting to think that, yes, my own part in condemning this debacle has probably generated a few sales out of sheer morbid curiosity. That is true. However, I’ve always been a fan of the long ball. I want to have the argument against this decision out there so it can marinate in the minds of anyone who reads this blog. I want them to sit and think about it, and as time goes on I’m confident that many people who have purchased the book today will say, “You know what, that really was an error in judgment on Marvel’s part. Big time.”
Doug, I want your opinion on something comics related that isn’t about Spider-Man, but have no idea how to discuss it with you since it’s a personal thing and not about any other established characters either.
Feel free to ask here: DC and Marvel Use Letters to The Editor to Control Content, Liberal Editors Loathe Conservative Bloggers. I guess that will work. It’s an older post.
I couldn’t sleep last night this is going to be very long thanks again Doug for giving us a voice.
Finally a glimmer of hope Peter may come back from under the mental rubble. I’ve seen some scans of SSM 19 online not that whatever comeback Parker may have can be undone by certain psychopaths. That being said I have very mixed feelings about Mary Jane in this issue on one hand it’s about time that she notices any other writer and she’d find out one week tops. That being said when she talks about moving on was another thing Peter and MJ already tried to move on it didn’t work and besides why did they get married in the first place? Because she was incapable of seeing a future with any other human male and because not one of the 7,000 characters of the Marvel Universe would be half as good of a match she is the only person who can handle both sides of him as Mephisto said it was something sacred blessed by god.
I just hope that if and when Marvel decides it’s time for Parker to rise from the ashes he doesn’t emerge with amnesia change in a “dark” way or become gay overnight.
Marvel admitted a few months ago that SSM was an attempt to phase out Peter Parker fans they said they wanted those fans to die off. Because of course all people care about is the mask not the man there can be a gazzilion spider-men character or not that’s just fine. This is the spirit of looters who don’t care what mess they leave for future generations as long as things don’t collapse in their own lifetime. (I don’t support any worldy philosophy but 75% of objectivism is undeniably right) I may have said this before but Quesada has acknowledged before that MC2 is the real canonical future of Marvel and anything contrary is apocryphal. Comics do have an affect on society all of this nerd rage is a cumulative psychological effect on their customers and it resulted in death threats via twitter.
I’m sorry but a character is as real as there effects on real events and while they are being very deliberately irresponsible because they know this and there using it to sell their products. Is it possible Marvel is actually being run by Psycho Man and the Hatemonger I just wish this rage had actual results like when OMD came out Joe Q would get attacked by an angry mob of woman calling him out as the envious home wrecker he is or his daughter condemned him or Slott’s psyche was powerless for a day.
Many fans feel like Batman in the Red Hood when he talks about how he wishes to subjecting Joker to every terrible thing that he has done not sadism but justice. (Justice is all about balance) Comics are meant to offer us hope that any obstacle can be surmounted both Marvel and DC have perverted this idea and molded the company to suit J Jonah Jameson’s outlook. “Kid people want to see their heroes fail makes them feel better about themselves”
I don’t remember where I heard it but there is this story where a cruel man takes his gun out and leashes his dog up to a tree and fires inches above the poor thing again and again and again the whole night when the morning came the man unleashed the dog and it mauled him. The point I’m making is what right do they have to put us in this position, ask us to pay them for it and then condemn us when we don’t give them praise.
I’m sorry but if I had a brother who suffered this much shit and was equally powerless to do anything how do you think I would feel?
There is also the issue of the long rumored end of the Ultimate Universe Super Galactus will eat the Ultimate line which was pretty good before Ultimatum and Miles will be the only survivor entering the 616 universe. (iv even seen photos of an Avengers cover with a small Amazing costumed Spider-Man whose been rumored as Miles) Otto, Miguel, Kaine, Flash, Miles and maybe Parker Are there to many spiders in the room?
People have long speculated about OMD a lot say Mephisto had an additional motive trying to eliminate May from existence as a potential threat I’m a Spider-Girl fan but I think there is a more plausible explanation after the Civil War Peter donned his black costume and started going after the Kingpin in ASM 274 we learn that if Spider-Man kills or by his deliberate inaction allows Fisk to be killed the Beyonder will destroy Mephisto and his realm so the evil one found a way to get something out of his self-preservation. (a living Aunt May would lessen Peter’s rage at Fisk) Knowing how many hours writers spend trolling the internet (iv investigated Slott’s actions myself and the list of websites he’s tainted and stuff censored is really piling up)
I assume that it won’t be long so I beg of Marvel that they listen to my Peon words of wisdom. For I am a true fan a customer who does not read comics causally, for entertainment, a love of violence or to fulfill perverted or sadomasochistic fantasies but as a Fan of Spider-Man.
I know every comic fan talks about how they would do things differently or how things could be fixed if they were in charge. When Peter returns things look very bleak indeed too bleak if we can finally get a good generation of writers here is what I want: As I’ve said before every single mistake Marvel has ever made was trying to go back to basics trying to force Peter into the mold of Amazing Fantasy #15 they believe that if Peter has a child that his journey will end that he will have grown up that it will be the end of Spider-Man. Nothing could be further from the truth we learn in Spider-Girl that it wasn’t until Peter lost his leg that he hanged up his webs the baby didn’t get in the way of his crime fighting rather it opens a door to hundreds more stories and Peter Parker would have many decades of publication before he would retire.
How does Spider-Man retire? I’ll tell you how the “son become the father and the father the son” decades from now when Mayday is a teenager she would save 45 year old Spider-Man and become one in her own right Peter would retire and they could reboot for all I care. The people who think Peter is played out think so because Marvel has been beating to death the same stories of single teen/college age Peter to death way past its expiration date and writers agree with them because it excuses there laziness.
I’m sorry but to say that any comic character especially the number 1 character is all played out is to deny the very nature of the industry. True comic fans never oppose Natural change so long as it isn’t fast or forced.
We all know Peter will emerge in a worse state than ever but how will he recover? Most people will want him to have the money problems back that’s fine and very natural the city won’ trust him they will see him as a menace yes that’s natural and fine. When Peter gets control back I want Cap (who Ock attacked) to be the first superhero who accepts him Peter would be more doubting and depressed then ever and Cap one of his Former idols would tell Peter that he is the one hero that he ever looked up to not respected but idolized.
Peter would emerge different not much different but he would lose this blindness Slott inserted that made him save Ock in Ends Of The Earth now when something like Ends Of The Earth happens if he has to choose between saving a genocidal villain whose right in front of him and an ally that’s pretty close he’ll choose the ally. Spider-Man should have new villains and emphasis should stay on crime. Now onto relationships OMD has to be undone man and woman were created as complements of one another hence they are simply incomplete without each other. Mary Jane is Peter’s better half and like many fans I used to be very critical of their relationship it was because of my own ignorance.
Because for most of my life iv read mostly Stan and Conway’s work (and because iv always been a Gwen Fan) I thought of MJ as the caricature Quesada wants us to. Until a few years ago when I binge read ASM 1-500 and my respect continues to grow with each day. When Mary Jane says in SSM 19 that she has to change it bugs me because the change can’t possibly be positive MJ is a dynamic character the most complex supporting character in all of fiction every time there’s a panel of her I’m caught thinking what’s going on in her head.
There are only two non-regressive changes Mary Jane’s character has yet to evolve they are becoming a superhero or a mother. Here are some ways OMD can be undone:
1. Loki gives Parker his favor.
2. Mary Jane either finds out about the brain swap and realizes what a total idiot Slott made her or she dates someone else realizes the person is similar to Peter and the screaming part of her soul does its job.
3. Peter kills the Kingpin resulting in the Beyonder killing Mephisto and reality is fixed without the death of Aunt May or Harry Osborn.
4. Aunt May finds out and sacrifices her life to undo the deal telling Peter her last words making Peter resolved not to let her sacrifice be meaningless.
5. Peter finds out about the deal and how he saved Mephisto’s life in ASM 274 gets really pissed and tortures him with speeches and the use of God’s name until he surrenders. the devil does walk around like a roaring lion but the scriptures say that if you oppose him he will flee from you.
6. This is my favorite the great monotheistic god who Mephisto and comic writers alike fear the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, The One Above All, The Ancient Of Days, Jehovah isn’t to happy about being spit in the face and intervenes. Mayday could return by a miracle once again there is a precedent for this in the pages of Fantastic Four. This would open up Thousands of potential stories.
If the industry wants there characters really to be more accessible they should stop the crossover events and long story arcs and get back to single issue stories.
Imagine now a story with Spider-Man bothered by his tarnished reputation and one fan brightens his day, or a story where Peter and MJ not on a date but you know doing normal couples things and there interrupted by a crime, or Spider-Man is out fighting some villains and an interrupting phone call from Aunt May almost gets him killed or Peter leaves a job interview when Mayday is kidnapped. He can have problems and still have a family, he can have problems and still have a life, he can progress and still be Spider-Man.
Now as a writer I’m going to point out Dan Slott’s flaws. Slott clearly has a lack of empathy and has some childhood issues in addition the characters that he identify with are so horrific that a person has to be in real denial to not think it is indicative of his character.
Finally, Slott had a real hard time writing ASM because he is missing the most important skill of any writer or actor: Self Negation.
Since he is without empathy, Slott cannot put himself in the place of characters that aren’t just like him. He couldn’t really understand Parker or any of the supporting cast that weren’t his own and that made him uncomfortable. And so, when he finally eliminated the troubling protagonist he gave up trying to write anyone besides Spock with any respect to their character or intelligence level whatsoever.
No one should write a hero to millions of children if they can’t identify them, no one should write one if they don’t have a comprehensive knowledge and a talent for self negation. I’m really glad Sony still has the movie rights even if retaining them required a far superior reboot coming to soon for some. At least they respect the character.
Now I want to talk quickly about Joss Whedon and The Avengers franchise. We all know Joss is a hypocritcal liberal and I’m not going to talk about that. But when asked in an interview on Avengers: Age Of Ultron Joss expressed the flawed attitude atheist/liberal/nihilist have towards the industry. When asked if any characters would die in Avengers 2 he said that there had to always be the chance for that because ultimately people got to these films “to watch people suffer.” Can you believe it! I apologize for the length of this rant and ask everyone for their opinions. And if anyone has an idea how we can make a difference. (We are but its a measly percent what we need)
Arachnobat:
How would you define what Objectivism is? From what I know of it, it’s sort of to the left of Anarchy mixed with the self-indulgence of Satanism. Is that a correct assumption?
Philosophy means the love of wisdom. Wisdom is the application of knowledge according to the divine standard. Since most philosophies completely remove god from the equation the foundation of all ethics philosophers and philosophy are misnomers. Man’s wisdom is made foolish by gods. I like reading philosophy because i enjoy seeing different viewpoints to ethical situations but i take it all with a grain of salt. As for what objectivism is on the political spectrum I wouldnt place it as right or left because i see the right (Empire, Monarchy Aristocracy and Republics) and the left (Democracy, Socialism, Communism and Anarchy) as two halves of a wheel rather than a bar. Rand’s philosphy was the product of the experiences of her life everyone in America says she didnt understand Communism when of course she was raised in Red Russia. What I respect about Objectivism is the observations about human nature and the left because they are dead on with many of the experiences in my life and im sure many conservatives. Rand’s philosophy like all man’s has flaws clearly she couldnt get past all of the communist conditioning of her youth as she remained a proud atheist. While i do agree with the general gist of the mystics of spirit since it has historical foundation what person couldnt cringe when she repeatedy writes the god who you created in your image. I do believe that she went way to far in pride and the glorification of selfishness who can say that a person is in there right mind when they say that a cry for help is to be taken as the mark of a cannibal? And of course i do not approve of its justification of adultery. Those are the thoughts that immediately come to mind.
Actually, Empire, Monarchy and Aristocracy are on the left, as I see Left and Right being placed on what I like to call The Sliding Scale of Government Power and Invasiveness.
Doug: Is it okay to discuss something off-top with Arachnobot here since he doesn’t seem to have his own account?
If not then I’ll say this to add to the conversation:
How does it even make sense that Ock was about to cause an extinction level event on Marvel earth without ANYONE noticing?
I don’t mind if things that are sort of off topic pop up naturally, but if you’re going to be asking him about Vladimir Putin instead of something comic related or in reference to something he’s already mentioned … then it becomes annoying. Use your best judgment.
I’ll give you my Email address if you want.
Sure Arachno. I’ll give you mind as well. It’s:
vunderguy@gmail.com
Seriously though, what context was given for that extinction level event Ock was about to cause where he gave his now infamous speech saying he would overtake Hitler and Pol Pot?
Mine’s Ryanknight525@gmail.com
marvel is pulling a dc move, like the new 52. its well needed in my opinion. especially with the time stream or what ever is broken. it makes sence, but first we are going to see things that will eat at our soul.
ock is going to get the symbiote, who is going to fight with ock a lot. the symbiote had a love for peter that was like “if i can’t have you know one can”, but is it the same symbiote? i have to get out my venom comics again. norman should be able to tell right away that ock isnt the real spiderman, and if norman ever worked with ock, he will be able to plug everything together and find out who is in the body. the osborn kid knows, idk where its going though.
in two years i expect to see everything restarted, they are making a mess of marvel and need away to fix it.
Thanks for the read. It will be interesting how Marvel untangles itself from this mess, that’s for sure. If they bring Peter back in a way that is mind-blowingly awesome I will stand up and cheer. I will give credit where credit it due. However, I have almost absolutely no faith in the current creative team to knock it out of the park. Even if they did, the question remains: Was it worth it? Was it worth having Peter gone for that long? That’s a hard sell.
Now I want to talk about Marvel/DC, Continuity and why I read comics. I have never read a DC comic in my life there are three reasons for this. 1. DC has a few good characters but Marvel has a lot more winners and as a whole they are way more accessible. 2. There is a lot more magic in DC and I find it offensive because all magic is founded on the notion that man is smart enough to manipulate the demons for their own ends. 3. DC crumbles under its own weight constantly and really all they do is write whatever story they feel like. There are three reasons I read comics 1. Emotional support motivation etcetera 2. As videogames can be the highest form of art comics were the height of American literature in the old days. 3. Loyalty to the characters. Now continuity I am an extremely loyal Marvel reader how many haven’t bothered with their distinguished competition? I accept alternate versions in comics and other media with open arms I even believe the Spectacular Spider-Man show and The Amazing Spider-Man film exceeded the source material while Ultimate and 2099 are worth reading. I will never accept an AU however if the source version dies I don’t mind most retcons but I don’t take well to reboots it defeats the purpose of investing all this money it’s worse than inflation. My two biggest reasons for loving Marvel are Spider-Man and that they have a much easier to fathom universe that has bent but never really crumbled under its own weight. I don’t care at all if a comic character/series ends or dies well but I believe that to say that Marvel’s most popular characters are all tapped out is foolish and lazy especially when the Big Two follow the reboot/revampe/repeat philosophy instead of forming something completely new it’s called the end of innovation people are to lazy to make new things so they say everything’s been already done and tweak what’s already been made. Right now as a customer I am at a point where I will abandon the industry in its entirety if one of the following happens.
1. Age Of Ultron/SSM lead to a New 52 scenario which is very possible with Super Galactus and all.
2. Peter is killed a third time.
3. While Peter obviously has to go through a lot of self reflection if goes the Ultimate Reed Richards route. (I really liked Ultimate Reed before he yknow devolved into a crazy villain)
4. It becomes clear that Peter and Mary Jane will never get back together or she’s killed.
Iv read some more of Slott’s interviews and though he’s clearly a man child who spends something like 5 hours trolling and I have not and will never forgive him my anger has dropped about 40% because though he plotted and planned SSM since ASM 600 if Marvel had had its way it would have come 40-50 issues sooner. Why though do they have to keep shooting themselves in the foot and destroying everything? Those are my thoughts.
My Marvel pull list is down to just 4 titles now, the lowest it has ever been and the only 2 books from DC that I buy are “Batman” & “Detective Comics”. I really enjoy Scott Snyder & John Layman’s writing on those titles.
I do agree however with your points. I am very disillusioned with the road Marvel has been travelling down, especially with their Marvel NOW concept and in particular their total disrespect of Peter Parker the Amazing Spider-Man.
SSM reads like a “Megamind” parody which is fine for a cartoon funny book, but not for a super-hero book. Speaking of which check out the link below. It’s interesting that someone at Marvel sees that parody that Marvel NOW has become and have published a book called “NOW What?”
It’s funny, but also sad, since for me, this is the new reality as my enjoyment of Marvel characters has steadily diminished in recent years.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=18601
“There is a lot more magic in DC…”
That’s as false as saying Daffie Duck could take Donald Duck is fight.
Im sorry if you think there’s “good magic and bad magic” i’m sure you also believe in “good witches and bad witches” there are two types of magic black magic (Using the demons to harm people) and white magic (begging the demons to protect you from “black magic”) there is no weird mystical forces or whatever. in real life no “magic” has a positive effect on people. In the bible practicers of magic, fortune tellers and similar folk were to be cut off from the people or put to death because they were satanic collaboraters and promoted false religious doctrines.
“I’m sorry if you think there’s “good magic and bad magic”
In the context of the Marvel and DC Universe’s, yes. Yes there is.
“In real life no “magic” has a positive effect on people.”
Again: in the context of the DC and Marvel Universes, this is not true.
“In the bible practicers of magic, fortune tellers and similar folk were to be cut off from the people or put to death because they were satanic collaboraters and promoted false religious doctrines.”
Look dude, I’m all for the Bible and bringing it and the truth within back into popular and conscious thought, but these are comic book universes with a heavy focus on the Superhero Genre here…let a Sorcerer Supreme, Norse Thunder god, Amazon created from clay by her mother and the frickin’ Greek gods (Wonder Woman), and Lord of Order (Dr. Fate) be who they are (magic based heroes) and fight evil.
“1. DC has a few good characters but Marvel has a lot more winners and as a whole they are way more accessible.”
Yeah…winners like The Sentry, for example. 😛
I know a whole lot of DC’s charcters iv watched just about all of there animation sure Superman’s the original superhero (Snyder’s himself admitted that any Superman story that isnt absolutely perfect stinks.) Green Lantern has the Potential to be good sometimes and Flash is entertaining enough the rest i could take or leave. I’m sorry but from day one of the Marvel Universe (the first issue of Fanatastic Four admitedly one of there lamest titles) Marvel has always strived to make there heroes more accesible. Sure Batman is somewhat relatable because he has no powers or anything and yes he’s awesomely capable in taking down baddies or the entire justice league if he’s in the mood but how long do you think DC could have lasted without Batman?
“more accessible…”
Coming from a believer in Jesus, a creator who loves us, Angels, and etc, this is freakin’ ironic man.
Also:
1. Billionaire Playboy Philanthropist who gets drunk a lot (to the point of becoming a joke in the Ultimate Universe with even more un-heroic tendencies).
2. Super-Duper Patriotic Man from the 40’s who probably is fighting back some SERIOUS ‘Get off my lawn!’ Old Man Tendencies (admittedly, since I like America and old people and have thought I was an old man in a teen’s body for the longest time, this character breakdown is more affectionate. They’re ALL affectionate, but this one more so).
3. Big Strong Beefy Norse Thunder god who twirls around a magic hammer and goes into mystic realms and space a lot (and who would probably give Richard Wagner inspiration for a new play).
4. Giant Green Rage monster who sprouts from wimpy gamma scientist guy who has a lot of pent up rage to fuel said rage monster (I’ve…got nothing considering how intelligent I like to think I am and how angry I get) and who has had like, four different versions of himself all with various power levels and personalities.
5. Hank Pym/Giant Man/Ant Man/Goliath 1/Yellow Jacket/Wasp! (Just…Hank Pym/Giant Man/Ant Man/Goliath 1/Yellow Jacket/Wasp!)
6. Janet Van Dyne/The Original Wonderful Wasp): See number five.
Yes. ALL SIX of these sound EASILY accessible and TOTALLY heroic.
Admittedly though, back in the day, most of them were heroic, at least. The problem for Marvel now (as opposed to Marvel NOW) is that comics are for middle aged perverts and true acts of heroism are fewer and far between. It seems that, with the heroes in comics at least, the idea of ‘the weakness of flesh is to settle for less’ is winning out when it comes to heroes.
“because all magic is founded on the notion that man is smart enough to manipulate the demons for their own ends…”
Ummm…no it isn’t. DEMONIC magic is founded on such notions, but then again, not every magic based person in the DC OR Marvel Universe draws power from demonic based magic.
“3. DC crumbles under its own weight constantly and really all they do is write whatever story they feel like.”
Dude, that’s a problem with the industry in general and hardly unique to DC, or do you want me to list all of the stinkers Marvel has put out there that illustrate this idea, hrmm?
Sure Marvel writers are selfish and they write according to there whims more than ever. But while Marvel has had alternate universes many retcons and a semi-reboot in the 90’s they have never started all over again. There continuity is much stronger and it is something they are proud of and it is something i am proud of. DC is a box of toys for its writers at least Marvel’s toys come with instructions sure they are sometimes ignored but Everyone knows there there.
“There continuity is much stronger…”
The Justice Society of America (the first ever Superhero team) and all of their Golden Oldie WW II stuff made during the period AND all of the golden age elements/characters that they decided to keep for use in future comics that they kept and that Marvel has largely forgotten outside of Namor The Submariner, Captain America, and one or two references to the first Human Torch actually being a robot would like to have a word with you…
“…and it is something they are proud of and it is something i am proud of…”
I’ll give you this: The New 52 is living proof that the writers of DC didn’t care about the fans and the long and rich history they made in Post-Crises Continuity. Heck, is shows how downright LAZY they are, since the majority of changes they wanted to enact could have been done WITHOUT a reset like was done back in 1985, but since they thought it was easier for the ‘Phoenix to rise anew from the ashes,’ they thought they could do it that way and catch the ever illusive ‘new reader’ that way. What they did was tantamount to an internal purge of supporters by a Marxist regime. Granted, us fans of DC aren’t the most trusting of fans or forgiving by any stretch of the imagination because of our expectations in the characters and types of stories we cherish and the tendency of writers to mess things all up, but damn it! Good and bad, we were loyal to Post-Crises Continuity!
Sure the WWII stuff was tweaked a little in Marvel but as you say their three major golden age characters are still kicking. But I don’t want to argue any more you are just as entitled to your opinion as mine and it may be just as justified.
“comics were the height of American literature in the old days…”
Ummm…according to who?
Well obviously not according to Fredrick Wertham. That statement is acording to myself and the testimony of thousands of college students and proffesors in the sixties when writers respected their audience and actually cared about there craft. Comics like are a distincly American domain there may be swarms of imitators Manga/foreign films but they almost never compare. I also believe its a high form of literature because many characters (especially in ones that crumble less) are very strong and fleshed out because its a form of literature where you have people paying to see the same character for hundreds of issues. Also scientific studies have shown that there is no form of information presenation in the world that has the same mental and emotional impact as a comic book. I made the comparison to videogames because who really respects videogames? Yet videogames make twice as much money as the film industry and the art world are now flocking to videogames and saying that it is the highest form of art because videogames are stunning and synchronized pieces of art made by the collaboration of a lot of people that are interactive and never exactly the same. My point is that comics to have long been underated and underespected sure since about the time of Watchmen or Kraven’s Last Hunt they’ve deserved the reputation they had but for much of the golden and all of the silver age they were a form of entertainment America should have been greatly proud of.
I agree with your assessment that Comic books and games are often times underrated pieces of art. I’ll also agree that Kraven’s Last Hunt is an often overlooked gem. As great or as thought provoking as Watchmen…ehhh…but it is a highlight of Spider-Man and a good read.
I believe you misunderstood me slightly while Kraven’s Last Hunt, Watchmen and might I add The Dark Knight/TDK Returns are intelligent well written stories I pointing out that it was dark 80’s stories like these that originated this downward spiral in the industry. Unless its about religion or science I’m done debating with people. I’ll post my opinion and converse but unless iv got a good reason I’m not arguing with anybody. I even tweeted Slott yesterday that id be willing to talk with him about the future of Marvel without a word of criticism about his work.
Found out this morning Slott has given an extremely overt hint that Miguel is going to be one of the casualties of Goblin Nation and gleefully admitted that there will be many more. I’m all for reducing the number of Spider-Men but this is simply to much I’m sorry but ignoring Mr. Inferiority Complex having to constantly fight every male with a spider costume why kill of a character capable of supporting their own series so soon after they were brought to the modern day and so soon after Kaine and Flash’s series were cancelled.
I was going to stop posting about comics unless something big happened in 20, 25 or Goblin Nation but I saw a preview of SSM #20 Get this Madame Web stirs a bit from her coma and says that the webs collapsing ALL SPIDERS WILL DIE I knew the second I heard about Superior that this would happen if the original wasn’t restored but I didn’t think Slott respected his own continuity enough to follow through on such a glaring thing especially if it made Otto look less good. A wild ride indeed.
My mindset as it pertains to new posts on SSM is along the same lines. I might do something for SSM #20 and then any other big developments, but for the most part Peter Parker fans are just in limbo.
A couple days ago I had a big religio-scientific epiphany the fourth in my life each one has come when I was revising Learn About Your Grand Creator. It’s such a beautiful thing to grasp the mind of god and this discovery will serve as the core of another nonfiction Love Is… I don’t want to go into details yet its such a big and hard to unload thing I’ll have to create my own blog to get it out there but it has huge implications for what Quesada has done. Whatever the case I will wait till after I see the therapist this week (Make sure I haven’t gone crazy town banana pants) and looked up SSM #20 before I deal with it.
I am seriously over Slott I don’t care anymore he is a sadist and he is a manchild but I blame the parent more than the child. Jew or not as I said before he is very much the Hatemonger and Psycho Man and who can say he hasn’t created some Malice?
I am absolutely livid at Quesada I believe that he is a cancer to his company and that OMD is an actual product of the Devil. Notice the similarities between his methods and those he favors to The Green Goblin of The Spectacular Spider-Man show.
Just to be perverse I shall activate your curse if you want the reverse put Spider-Man in a hearse.
Quesada held JMS’s career at gunpoint for daring to do a decent job with the marriage he forced OMD and ensured his departure. When Quesada found out about the idea for Superior he wanted it to come two years sooner then we got it.
If Spider-Man thinks Black Cat will even his odds Gobby will open a few more pods.
Since Quesada has taken over Peter has gone from being an unfortunate victim of the Parker luck to a complete loser. Every ally and ray of hope must be slaughtered even if its (like in SSM#8-9) in his own mind.
Up and down up and down I shall lead them up and down round and round they shall go death will find them up and down.
Comics used to have a little something called character development a character would suffer setbacks but there was always a progression and when you honor character development and aging you actually extend the longevity of your franchise. If Quesada hand’t ruined Spider-Man it could have lasted another century. While it is perfectly appropriate to tear a character down like in The Dark Knight Rises if it makes the character even more heroic provides the means for a good comeback and offers a happy ending it is an entirely different thing to take the Dan Slott approach and spend years building a character up specifically so he has a greater height to fall from when you toss him. Finally by eliminating the marriage Parker entered a significantly crappier version of his already played out single days he is forced to run round and round the same dead plots potentially recover his relationship with Mary Jane and then be raped, torn down murdered and replaced by his enemy in a plot that has already been done before.
Who are you loyal to Tombstone? Silvermaine? Don’t tell me your fond of the Master Planners personality. The other crime lords wanted to simply distract Spider-Man I prefer a more direct approach.
When he got into a position of authority Quesada eliminated those he was at odds with individuals that wanted Spider-Man to have twice the problems of a normal man not for his life to be a living hell.
I assure you that the Green Goblin has prepared for every contingency.
Quesada is in a position of great power and uses no responsibility he is obsessed with getting what he wants and ignoring his lies to the public he has still used every dirty trick in the book to make Spider-Man a no-win situation for Parker and his fans.
Lord what fools these mortals be.
All of Marvel is laughing at us for spending our money on this shit.
Here are some more quotes from the show.
“Is this a game I’m not sure of the rules?”
“Rule 1 Spidey must go splat.”
“Rule 2 Ignore rule 1.”
I really really hope he gets canned not crucified on a cross of gold but impaled on a stake of humble tin.
Okay so tried to create a new account but it had the same problem. Either its my computer, the website or I’m being censored. I cant give away the details because of the one who will remain unnamed. Here’s the gist after several weeks of anger, borderline madness and religio-scientific epiphanies which have magnified my love for god by an order of magnitude. I am motivated very motivated to sue Joe Q. I have good grounds and believe that with a little media support I can do some good.
I know when to tap out, and legal matters are out of my realm of expertise. I generally think the U.S. is too litigious, so I would not be the best person to ask for advice on this issue.
I understand and how could I not agree that the US is way to trigger happy with lawsuits. But I’m not looking for money as a witness in God’s great legal case it is my duty to shine a light on these people and a legal setting is as good as any for a public shaming. Once again I understand its just that I have a very good case and it would be better with publicity. This is my way to pay of my debt to the character all I want is one good chance.
Iv seen most of SSM 20 bravo Slott I’m not even going to comment on it because I am emotionally desensitized to your poor writing and shenanigans.
This statement on Goblin Nation is very telling of Slott.
On the amount of freedom he has on Spider-Man: Way too much. Stop me! Why won’t somebody stop me?! No one knows what’s going to happen. One of the things I can tell you about “Goblin Nation” — because this has been building. We have Green Goblin over here and we have Doc Ock over here and it’s all coming together. One of the things I can tell you with that security of people knowing I’m willing to pull triggers: no one is safe. The minute we get to “Goblin Nation,” all bets are off, no characters are safe. I don’t care if Stan Lee or Steve Ditko created them — they could die! John Sr. — I don’t care what generation they came from, no one’s safe. Everyone’s on the table. Anyone could go
That he mentions he doesn’t care if Stan or Steve created them it indicates one of the casualties will be of the old guard. Meaning Peter, (AGAIN!) Mary Jane, Liz Allan, J Jonah Jameson, Flash or Aunt May. Do any of these sound like choices that will benefit the Spider-Man mythos?
Even though I no longer harbor anger towards Slott and I’m calm I can still say this is exactly like what you were saying about trying to “fix” an image of Jesus. Who am I kidding this is just vandalism. Anyway my accounts still aren’t working and I suspect foul play. And I apologize in advance Doug for the size of the manifesto I am posting here soon. Thanks again for giving us fans this service.
No problem, man. If someone is not happy with the direction Marvel has taken Spider-Man in, then I want them to feel as though they have a place to vent — free from moderators who use the slightest provocation to ban people.
The statement I am writing is half finished and is going to be somewhere around 10,000 words I cannot say that a good person would not be moved by it. I apologize again in advance for its size on your forum and dearly hope that it reaches as many people as possible.
My Manifesto Part 1
I know that putting this out here might hurt my individual attempt at resolution but I don’t care I want to inspire people the truth is something you have to share it sets men free. This is an epically long rant and I’m telling you when I’m writing this I am 99% over it I’m going to talk with my therapist and I will do something to address the situation but I am more over it than I ever expected to be and this is a calm hyperabridged statement I could go on for a weeks and use thousands of examples and parallels in the bible, comics and modern times but I will keep that to a minimum.. I will probably sound crazy. There is a saying that to see god is to know madness I never bought that but these religio-scientific discoveries I have made (four in total) each came to me in the space of several seconds each one was better than the last built on previous ones. The third one its applications, understanding and implications (and how mad I was at Marvel in relation to it) took me weeks to fully process and put into words it nearly drove me insane. The fourth revelation came a few days ago and morning and is awe inspiring.
(Note I am writing this for purely religious motivations I am the most politically neutral person you’ll ever meet. I stopped collecting Amazing at #500 for purely financial reasons. I found out about OMD shortly after it happened but didn’t read it and was hence highly offended but not enraged by it. I still followed Amazing online. After Superior #19 came out I bothered to read this story and I have to say from a spiritual standpoint this is on my top 10 list of Satan’s crimes the events of Civil War through Superior Spider-Man are now ranked as one of the two most distressing situations of my life the other being the death of my great grandmother which made me face mortality for the first time. But in that case I got closure in the resurrection hope confident that she was in Jehovah’s memory. My father raped me when I was a child and he raped my sister and he psychologically tortured my mother for decades and I seriously found him less of a psychological burden than these storylines. I just want that to sink in.)
Why in the name of God are the Big 2 still operating? Oh yes because they are both owned by film companies that make so much money no one cares what shit the writers and editors print to fill their emotional needs regardless of how much they hurt people or invert characters beloved by millions. How is a married Spider-Man unappealing to young people but a holocaust like Ultimatum cool for little children I don’t believe this crap about appealing to young audiences. I own almost all of Ultimate Spider-Man my first encounter with comics was when my grandmother purchased the first volume for me at the mall. I loved Spider-Man and I’ve said before I owe him my life on at least one probably two counts not counting my sanity and spiritual health. But now I am disgusted to look at them and selling them off because I realize that the Spider-Man I first started reading was a counterfeit an illusion written by Bendis but masterminded by Quesada. Quesada himself admits that No More Mutants and OMD were missions he was obsessed with from day 1! There never was a Mentally teenage Spider-Man or at least not after the death of his Uncle heck the reason he called himself Spider-MAN is proof of the direction he was headed. Joe couldn’t get rid of the marriage because of the 90’s show, fan outrage and upcoming films but he still had this need for a single teenage punk Spider-Man and after reboots and AU’s were suggested by a certain magazine he saw his chance. He hired likeminded cronies to make the stories he wanted to make money marketing them to kids with content that is PG-13 MOST of the time and when the Spider-Man trilogy ended disappointingly he had his chance to do what HE WANTED. Marvel started writing BND before OMD was even finished. Even though they were allegedly trying to explore a “bachelor” Parker We all know how Carlie got her name and she was featured in The Many Loves Of Spider-Man before she even dated Peter. (for the record I don’t mind Peter dating Carlie or any woman after OMD so long as the door is not completely shut for a reversal) People say oh Ultimatum was a piece of crap not only is that an insult to crap but it was Meant to be crap with 616 Peter single Quesada had no reason for the Ultimate Universe to exist. Sales drops might have been a factor but if that were the case then why did the Ultimate Universe survive this event? Why does it require The Death Of Ultimate Peter and Cataclysm to put it in the grave? I don’t care about anything that Bendis, Slott or other writers have done I care about Joe Q when a kid goes out and shoots people for fun who do you blame the kid or the monster that adopted them who loads and leaves his gun out for them with a wink and candy afterwards? Slott and the others are not the problem they are symptoms of a man plagued with a set of spiritual diseases that I don’t even care to mention. A man who is fundamentally the opposite of Peter Parker. At this point the only reason I care about Superior is that it amounts to yet another attempt to present Carlie as Peter’s girl (gee is it possible Joe’s a pedophile wait my father is a pedophile and his name is Joe this is getting weird) There are some types of relationships Peter could explore after OMD dating a cop (check) dating Black Cat (Doesn’t count because Marvel’s never liked her Always wanted to tank her and they erased all of her very fine post Parker marriage character development that would make us Want her to be in a relationship with Peter and besides they made it friends with benefits.) Dating a real heroine (Carol would have been awesome but Slott wouldn’t allow him to date a heroine and now writers just make fun of it) Dating a mother (didn’t happen) these and yes Ock’s new girl is a bold and admirable move but are we really to believe this? What is more believable that a strong friendship blossomed into a marriage between a heroic man and a woman who was attractive or that a whiny loser that no longer deserves to be called a hero somehow has attracted twenty different women but only Carlie is acceptable? Really more believable! And how believable is it that Peter who might not have even had sex before marriage (though ASM 150 Suggest that he and MJ could have) a man who has always been serious in relationships is suddenly relatable because banging chicks is more on his mind? Quesada himself said in the early days of BND that he would like to see stories where Peter tries to hide porn from his Aunt HOW is this man responsible for cultural icons. The truth is Spider-Man didn’t die when Ock killed him he didn’t die when Ock killed him again by getting him to betray his mantra. Peter Parker died the second One More Day was written and his murder had been plotted for years. Quesada has only a mild interest in sales this is proven by their deceptions with BND sales figures. Plus if OMD hadn’t happened Amazing sales would exceed Superior sales not that it matters since they are sheltered by Disney now. And the Spectacular Spider-Man show was awesome it was a teenage Parker sure but it was written with more intelligence than any comic writer in HISTORY! Of course Disney had to can it because they were mad at Sony and then they replaced it with Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon only extremely loosely based on Bendis’s work which is extremely loosely based on Amazing. A dummed down show which is presenting kids with a shallow unauthentic version of Peter Parker who is whiny and teaches highly forgettable lessons that are overshadowed by the fact that the whole show is a freaking commercial for everything except for Spider-Man! Yes it wasn’t enough for Quesada to destroy Spider-Man he had to bring our youngsters up on a false version of him to offset you know any good that might come from the Sony movies. Worse they had to create two clones of this show. What is the enduring appeal of Spider-Man? If you ask most people they will say they like his powers and costume but that the real reason he is an enduring legend to them is because of wait for it… Peter Parker a man that despite his powers is somehow more relatable than any non powered hero. They say they love the story because it is about man being the best he can choosing to do good no matter how much challenging it makes his life. They say it offers them hope and inspiration in their own lives. Spider-Man is a role model and honestly he is one of the very best outside the Bible just as a man shouldn’t rewrite the bible to make the accounts suit their own taste so comic writers have a responsibility to keep him true to character not use him as a toy.
It’s a story about growing as a person, about taking responsibility for your actions and it is about the power of love all principles that Joe is obsessed with annihilating. In all honesty Spider-Man was never a full teenager sure he was invented as the first teen superhero and though mature Peter does act like a teenager in Amazing Fantasy. That ended the second he saw the burglar’s face. By accepting responsibility for his actions Peter refused to defend or rationalize his actions he acknowledged the law of cause and effect and dedicated his life to protecting others. Also though Peter Parker was somewhat selfish and felt betrayed by his peers at his core Peter never lost his love of humanity NEVER no matter what life threw at him. Furthermore I reject the notion that Peter is like Doc Ock I’m sorry but ASM #200 reveals that the burglar was destined to kill his Uncle guilt or not Peter would have caught him and become a superhero although he wouldn’t have been as perfect of one. So I state my case the Peter of One More Day, Brand New Day, Big Time, Superior Ultimate and even the Clones none of them are the real Peter. One of the most offensive things about OMD and OMIT is that the story presents both Peter and Mary Jane as the EXACT opposite of who they really were not only is it the worst comic story but it desecrate both characters and spits on Uncle Ben’s grave, ruins his Aunt May as well and slaps God in the face. OMD was not an attempt to regress Peter Parker to the Lee/Ditko days it was successful attempt to turn Peter Parker into something entirely foreign a creature more selfish and less emotionally mature than the kid that let the burglar go.
Now I want to express what makes me love Spider-Man so much because I had the most profound religious experience recently in fact I can say I have come as close as an imperfect man without visions can get to seeing the face of God and his Adversary. Now until recently when I thought of why I love Spider-Man I though well Spider-Man makes my problems look tiny he is so good and pure and no matter how terrible life gets (remember I was living with a pedophilic father) he would overcome the burden. I could not stand how terrible the world around me was but I always believed that in a world where Peter Parker (The true one) is promoted that I could endure that I could wait it out I could stand to live. I imagined the scene with Peter under the rubble for the first time it is one of the three iconic and defining moments in Peter’s life the first being the death of his Uncle and the third Gwen’s death. The rubble is different it doesn’t remind us that our actions can have deadly consequences it teaches us that we can lift ourselves up from a seemingly hopeless situation and rise from the debris. (There was much more to this but I didn’t figure it out until recently. Honestly the story was written around the cover of ASM#33 and I know that Ditko was a Rand fan but that was a godsend just as we will soon find out the immortal lines With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility) When I was in school everyone hated me honestly everyone hated me because I was smart and had Asperger’s and because of my social impairment it was very easy for bullies to get me to retaliate and frame me. The situation further decayed because my sister was Dad’s plaything and he favored her to my detriment as a result though she is a splendid person now but in those days she was a spoiled brat who could do no wrong. My first experience with Spider-Man was at the age of two playing computer games and watching cartoons it grew from there religion, comics and videogames became my relief. Well one day Chloe did something to me I don’t remember what it was I think she hit me whatever it was I hit her back (whenever we had conflict as kids I always held back) and my family blamed it on a videogame where you throw spears at dinosaurs when the real cause was Chloe’s escalating behavior over the past few months. I lost my comic collection and my videogames for six months. (for the record I was reading a trade paperback a day minimum) Then I took them back and they didn’t care. I was 10 and we soon went on vacation and an allergy attack triggered some rather rude behavior on my part. Our dinner was cancelled and I was beaten… severely beaten for a half hour. I also lost my comics and videogames for another six months. As I stood on a balcony I seriously pondered suicide my family life was terrible I still didn’t know why I couldn’t see a reason for it (I hadn’t figured out my father yet though in all honesty I never loved him) my father told me to decide and I didn’t jump. It wasn’t a fast decision there were two reasons why I did it each equally strong 1. It would offend God and 2. The image of Peter under the rubble. I have never been particularly attached to my life beyond my desire to help others I had faith in God that if I died he would make the best choice for everyone in regards to my fate. I have always identified with Peter as most people do and I had a need to model my life after Peter second only to imitating Christ and conforming to God’s Word. Like Peter I have always been self centered (For him it’s the sheer logistics of being a superhero my excuse is my passion for gaining religious, scientific and historical knowledge) but in spite of this our actions and pursuits are motivated by a keen desire to help others a strong love of humanity that cannot die no matter how cynical we become. For the record I was never violent to a person again after this incident. A year later I started homeschooling.
At age 8 I read the bible from cover to cover and from that moment on I worked towards baptism. I waited four years and was fully immersed in visible symbol of the dedication I had made to God. I loved him and knew that he would bless me but I also knew that the choice I had just made would make me a bigger target for his enemies. This proved true and I stumbled many times in my teenage years nothing very serious but my conscious was very strong and I felt tremendous guilt. I was vulnerable to these things because six months after I was baptized I had this therapy where they essentially press the reset button on a specific bone in your skull it’s supposed to do something with your nervous system and it helped the first few times. But then something went wrong and the part of my brain that was able to evaluate on what terms I was with God was shut down. Other parts shut down as well and I suffered years of depression but I still had the Bible, I still had love and I still had Spider-Man my faith never wavered even when everyone I knew betrayed my family when we exposed my father for who he was. Several months after the treatment in a desire to cheer myself and everyone up, to improve my grammar skills which were always a personal weakness and to explore my creative side I started writing fiction. Mostly comedy but I’ve written every genre and there are deep deep themes.
When I was fifteen I was desperately wanted to please god and to wake people up I kept up my personal ministry but I knew I could do more I wanted to write something that would demonstrate my love for god and move others to serve him. So far I’ve written 10 religious/historical/scientific nonfictions in whole or in part. One of these projects in particular seemed to have Jehovah’s blessing it was titled Learn About Your Grand Creator the writing and revising of this work has been directly related to each scientific/religious discovery I have made. My first discovery was a system of checks and balances people missed in cosmology I must stress this was not a theory it was a simple observation that takes a half hour to verify and it reassured me that the universe is indeed perfectly designed capable of running indefinitely in its current state without the doomsday scenarios you may have heard of.
My second discovery involved the biological backing of virgin birth and the ransom it strengthened my faith and assured me in the hope we have. It also helped me to understand a lot about sin, blood and the life-right. It allowed me to understand How sin is inherited and Exactly what Adam gave up.
As my education and professional life moved forward I kept up the work. Living in expectation of Armageddon as I still am desiring some closure with Spider-Man I attempted (and still am) to complete a collection that will satisfy. Last year when The Amazing Spider-Man film came up I was filled with so much hope the movie had some small flaws mostly because scenes were cut but with those scenes intact (and ignoring the fact that Gwen never knew his secret ID in the comics) this was easily my favorite film and a great anniversary gift. Thank you Andrew 5 stars even if I don’t like some of your weird ideas.
Then Dying Wish came. Now as I said I was aware of OMD and obviously how it lowered the quality and I followed what happened since but I was too offended and concerned with collecting Spider-Girl and vintage stories to pay too much attention. Naturally when a character as iconic as Spider-Man is demolished on his 50th birthday it is something you have to look into I did and was disgusted as any sane person should be.
And you know what I was disgusted but I wasn’t going to let it bother me I didn’t mind a Doc Ock redemption story though of course Ends Of The Earth obliterates not to mention SSM itself eliminates any possible credibility to such an idea. In fact before SSM Doctor Octopus was my favorite villain. I decided I was just going to keep on collecting and wait it out.
Then I heard about the Parkerectomy it was the most offensive thing I had experienced in my life. To see the values which I had cherished and the person who embodied them defeated in such a manner. I just I’m not going to talk about it much. I tried to ignore it I tried to give Slott more of a chance but after a few months I got curious I went to the store and read the trades and then it hit me there are no words to express the indignity every panel is designed to be as painful and offensive as possible. If Slott was able to write this story with more intelligence I might have seriously broke. Oh the rage that it provoked. And you know that Slott has to really be pleasing Quesada because now he’s written about as much spider stuff as Stan Lee and Tom Defalco. I cannot express enough the impact of Issue #9 at that point I almost renounced my species and gave up preaching.
So naturally I tried to protest a bit after all an industry that was designed to teach children right from wrong is telling them that a man more evil than any that has ever lived is somehow a superhero even though he stole the hero’s body, trashes his life and kills more than ever. I was obsessed for months with resolving this issue. This fueled months of writing my own stories trying to compensate the character for the Sadism of his writers. I’m not going to give a long answer on the MJ rape thing there is literally no way to dance around that Otto wanted to and even if he failed he still violated Peter’s memories to get his satisfaction. Now breaking up with Mary Jane is of course what we were all rooting for but then Slott twist it into a stupid argument that somehow makes him ethically superior to Peter even though he ends up dating Marconi who is even more vulnerable. How far is too far? One of the worst parts about Superior was that Otto was never Truly moved by Peter’s memories he never really acknowledged that he had been evil and this is very true to his character Otto has always believed that the world is out to get him and he is justified to do whatever scheme he feels like because people just won’t give him a chance. Ultimately he wants to be loved but besides maybe Stunner he has never been willing to earn it as a result of his ego. And that is why Octavius could never be a Superior Spider-Man because his personality has not changed. And the mental battle is the final proof that he has not changed he is a coward that couldn’t stand the possibility of losing any control of the body he stole he destroys his memories and destroys everything (That’s still left in the BND verse) that makes Peter Parker the greatest fictional character of all time using his guilt as the final weapon. I’m sorry but this is the height of hypocrisy since the little girl was only in trouble because Otto wanted to murder the planet and Otto’s hypocrisy is examined in the next few issues. I’m sorry but if there has ever in history been a point of no return this is it and that’s the thing like many evil people in real life and the world of fiction Otto is motivated by envy and by an inferiority complex he knows he has never been Peter’s match and deep down he knows he is evil and he hates it but the blame doesn’t go on himself because that would be accepting reality, cause and effect, the law and such notions. We all know about the insane intelligence drop necessary to support this story “Ghost” Peter himself comments on this. But why for the love of God is Carlie the only person the least bit suspicious I get that Peter planted the seed of doubt but Mary Jane knows him WAAAAAAAAAAAAY to well to be fooled for more than a couple minutes. Wait Slott says she was just confused because of the part of her soul screaming from OMD and part of Peter’s was still present. I’m sorry but saying that is proof that Peter and MJ are still meant for each other and that there is no dancing around it. He will not get over her and she will not him not in a sane universe anyway which we’ve clearly past. Clearly Quesada wanted this long ago for Slott actually had to delay Superior two years. But why did Slott delay it? Because he knew fans reactions he knew it would end his career and he wanted to make money of off his other stories first and these stories that came first were specifically designed to give Parker a greater height to fall from. Why did Joe Q support this? Because he was mad at how people reacted to his choices and wanted us to suffer and because the story would be the perfect way to promote his near universally loathed Mary Sue as the one for Peter since Carlie has clearly become the second smartest person in the Marvel Universe. (I have no problem with Carlie Cooper at all as a character just in the way she has been used) and he still can get away with this because of Disney. I’m sorry Joe but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are so obsessed with attracting a younger audience don’t offer them sugar free lemonade laced with rat poison. You are never going to attract a younger audience unless you stop approving stories like Ultimatum, OMD and Superior PERIOD!
By the way did you know that the No One Dies arc and the insane obsession Slott gave Peter before Dying Wish was meant specifically to give him the alleged moral low ground for when Massacre was killed by Spock. Who am I kidding everyone knows that Dan’s been plotting this nightmare for a hundred issues.
So I was in a frenzy for some time I always believed that I had a huge but finite debt to Peter Parker and I thought that if I could successfully bring him back then my debt would be repaid. Then SSM #19 came out and finally I had some hope. That image of the mind wiped Peter emerging from the mental rubble (who knows if this is full Peter or a memory-less shadow of himself) Then I could cheer I know that the return will be extremely painful but at least I don’t have to worry about him getting killed off in a third body. However I was very bothered by Mary Jane cutting off Spock completely I mean it is extremely understandable and we want her to keep her distance from Spock but dammit the only reason I was able to accept the idea of BND to this point was that for all their hatred of Mary Jane they had to admit that she was still the one no matter how much they have and continue to dump on her character and no matter how much they exalt Carlie they will never convince fans NEVER and the more obvious it is that we don’t like it the more they force it.
Days before SSM#19 came out I had my third religious epiphany I realized that the golden angle is the mathematical expression of Jehovah’s pattern of creation based upon creating value and expanding the expression of his nature by inventing new forms of love without ever repeating himself. I discovered that the golden angle is love and I saw new meaning to “God is love” there were of course implications to this and the revelation came so fast it took me weeks to process this increased my anger about what Marvel had done and also at the world around me and god’s enemies. I saw this beautiful thing the golden angle a tree of life surprisingly not altogether different if less literal from the tree of Norse mythology. And I saw what sin was what evil was what made rebellion so evil. I saw that sin is a deviation from this angle an unhealthy cancerous approach that hurts God and leads to repetition “There is nothing new under the sun” and that while god always tries to correct our approach we can go too far. Jehovah created his intelligent creatures with free will because it was in his nature it was love the golden angle. Since God needs nothing the only way for his creation to manifest love for him is through obedience hence they had to have choice, free will plus it was a gesture of his own respect and love for us. So for the tree of life to work there would always have to be choice the potential for sin you couldn’t have the tree of life without the tree of knowledge of good and bad. (By eating of the fruit Adam and Eve sinned lost their innocence and became of aware of evil since they already knew good this was not a result of the fruit itself but of the act. The body knows if it is sinful and does not have the right to live and commits a slow suicide this is why we grow old and die.) there was a lot more to this but first I had to get past my anger and despair I was still made at Slott and now that I saw evil as a straying and/or attack on this wondrous beautiful structure it was just driving me mad.
So with SSM #19 two things happened my fears of Peter being permanently dead were over. Peter Parker is an idea that is bigger than the rest of Marvel combined he is the center of their universe and however much they may hate the real version of Peter they will always go back to him or some approximation of him because that is what their customers want. We’ll all of their customers that aren’t morally bankrupt. The second thing that happened is that with the potential of Peter and MJ being over for good I went back to OMD and OMIT and I actually read them instead of an outline they are the most offensive pieces of paper in the history of mankind and must be burned for all eternity they are products of the devil. The smallest offense of this story was that the angular pattern that made Spider-Man so great was severed and we’re getting repetition and abusive shock writing.
The last time Marvel caved to Spider-Fans was in 2001that should tell us something. OMD and OMIT almost pushed me over the edge this was downright satanic it was an attack on love because Satan is too pathetic to have a permanent victory outside the world of fiction he wanted to tarnish this branch of the tree and I think raise some side issue as he often does to try to extend his own existence.
While I prayed to god to help me get over it if I should and I tried I could not. Every time I found a place rationally or emotionally where I could let this go within two or three minutes id receive a sign really blatant ones too and that’s ignoring a 25th wedding anniversary I attended and a talk at church on how the marriage institution has been under attack the past century. Still however obsessed I was with this and how much I wanted to let it go I couldn’t my sleep suffered many times of course. Then I woke up at four am and had my most recent religious epiphany as I said I have now seen the face of God and his Adversary but I will get back to that in part II or III if that’s how long it takes.
Before I get back to this I just want to say just a few more things.
First watch the trailer of Spider-Man Web Of Shadows with Moonlight Sonata such emotional impact. I always think of that game when I hear that music and it reminds me of the battle we all have with the darkest part of our hearts and the wicked way of the world. Which path is Marvel taking?
If Quesada is really being motivated by sales then he is insane it is insanity to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. And if this is somehow miraculously true and he is not killing potential profit for his shareholders to satisfy his fantasies I have this to say to him. And yes I understand that it’s a very hard industry to work in with low payoff and I understand that you can’t please every person on earth. But aren’t 90% of stories people complain about from 1985 onward. Stan led fans in a unified direction because he RESPECTED the audience.
““May your silver perish with you, because you thought through money to get possession of the free gift of God. 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not straight in the sight of God. 22 Repent, therefore, of this badness of yours, and supplicate Jehovah that, if possible, the device of your heart may be forgiven you; 23 for I see you are a poisonous gall and a bond of unrighteousness.”
“What a man is sowing this he will also reap.”
KEEP FIGHTING PEOPLE and email me if you want to help fight this spiritual war.
Ryanknight525@gmail.com
END OF PART I
Okay so I’m going to move forward with legal action if there is any way to do it without bringing reproach to god’s name my one chance. If I fail that will be the end of the matter if there really is some side issue or challenge that has been presented then I have faith that Jehovah will address it somehow in his due time. It’s what he always does and in a way that humiliates his enemies and exalts his son for his loyalty. I don’t know whether or not I will finish the rest of my manifesto but I still ask that fans resist this dark path. Also Doug I’m curious how long they can sustain this course. I understand that Superior sales are greater but I think that roughly half of Parker fans left before and that the only reason monthly sales were higher in BND was because they were releasing three issues a month. How many sales do you think ASM would have had if they had made it three issues a month without alienating half of fans? I really think that many of the choices from Civil War-Superior constitute stealing from Marvel’s shareholders.
I’m sure Peter will be back, and I’m assuming it will be shortly before the new movie comes out in order to capitalize on it. As I’ve said before, I do not believe history will treat this era of Spider-Man kindly. Knowing that Peter will be back, and knowing that the truth of this run will eventually come into focus, is good enough for me.
I’m sure Peter will be back for the movie months ago I was really worried but then I heard about Goblin Nation. I was just wanted to express my faith that this will be resolved. Honestly however terrible the Civil War was I think Spider-Man could have been better than ever if he’d rejected the deal and I was curious just how much better Marvel would be doing long term if they hadn’t lost so many customers. Here is one of Slott’s more interesting tweets.
You are blood-thirsty and I love you. Seriously, if you guys get #KeepParkerDead trending, I’ll… I dunno. Kiss a moose or something.
So I’ve decided to shorten what was to be part 3 of my Manifesto and just put it out there. That night earlier I woke up early and had my fourth revelation there were three components first I always feared that my obsession with Spider-Man could compromise my spirituality. I realized that the reason I loved Parker like a brother and I believe this is for many people whether they know it or not its not something so simple as that he did the right thing no matter how hard it was. My love was not of Peter Parker but of what he represented he embodied my love of goodness and the potential inherent in humanity among other things. I loved Peter Parker because I loved what was right and the one who originated all things I also honestly believe I know and understand the character better than any of its writers even the greats (1. Defalco 2.Conway 3. JMS 4. Stan Lee) and I felt so delighted then it was as if scales fell from my eyes as I saw the world with a hyper clarity finally I overcame my depression and fear of potential madness when I realized that all of the insights of the past few years prove that God loves me and cares for me as an individual and that is all I wanted in the world as his child. Now I just want to really briefly comment on Inferior Spider-Man. First obviously the cover was highly deceptive the Black Cat scene was neither good or frustrating just a disappointment. It was disappointing that BND had to undo all of her character development and now Felicia will be regressed to her supervillainess beginnings. It shows us the extent of Ock’s change (Brutal and unnecessary force at the sight of crime instead of outright murder) As for the upcoming issue 21 I love the irony of him getting into a fight with Stunner although I honestly wish she and Ock would have worked out and mellowed at some point whether it was in the clone business or the Hand nonsense. Notwithstanding any major developments my only post on Spider-Man will be a dissection/solution of Marvel’s direction and the second part of my Manifesto where I explain how exactly the marriage was so holy blessed by god and all that stuff.
I found a site with the first 17 issues of Inferior free so I’m viewing this abomination with as little emotion as I can manage. There are some silly moments but it pretty explicitly states that Otto is masturbating in Peter’s body I would very much care if he had slept with Mary Jane but that was never an issue. Since he writes these 3 months (or 6 issues) in advance only predictions of fan reactions really have any power. I’m sorry but there is no getting around playing with someone else’s body like that being anything else but rape!
These are the things Dan Slott doesn’t like to talk about. He likes to insert elements into his stories that have wide-ranging implications, and then he doesn’t like to talk about them. He feigns offense. He tried to link me to some guy who writes fan-fiction Spidey porn when I brought up the body-snatcher rape implications, when deep down he knows I’m right. They ended any chances of him getting wit MJ, but Dan Slott’s Otto would have wanted to be a “superior” boyfriend/husband/lover than Peter. The guy tried to kill billions of people, has no qualms with murder in Peter’s body, but suddenly MJ is off limits? Yeah right.
I think Marvel went down that road not thinking of the consequences, and then when they realized where it led they put it in reverse as quickly as possible. Instead of admitting their mistake they attacked the few people who had the common sense and functional working compasses to see things clearly.
So iv read almost the whole thing now and I’m just trying to take it as a colossal joke a very inappropriate ultraviolent joke. I think that people exaggerate the stupidity a tiny bit 5% but The Black Widow wow what an idiot. If Dan Slott was the awesome writer people says he is he would not be attacking people and defending himself he would not rely wholly on shock writing Big “status quo” changes wouldn’t be advertised on an issue to issue basis because then shock is the “status quo.” and honestly there never was a need to change the status quo until it was obvious BND was a disaster hence Big Time. And the gimmicks all we’ve seen from the start of Big Time is gadget after gadget costume after costume more gadgets and costumes in the past few years than the previous 45 combined both Slott and Spock are compensating for something. If Slott was a good writer he wouldn’t take glee in what he was doing he would be somber about what he was doing and he would reassure fans without giving anything away. I believe that Goblin Nation is going to have a good five casualties shock after shock after shock. And yes it is possible for Goblin King to be Peter with all the emphasis on protecting and minimizing damage but there are two reasons I don’t think so. 1. Peter Parker would never tell people to worship him as a god that is just about the most Norman Osborn thing that could be said and 2. Menace would know. I think it would be incredibly easy to “fix” Spider-Man but that wholly relies upon having a non manchild writer and higher ups that aren’t downright evil and that’s what I hate all these writers think Spider-Man is about youth TomDefalco was such a good writer because he said I always thought Spider-Man was about responsibility. As long as no one is willing to learn that precious lesson from Uncle Ben and acknowledge their mistakes the Peter we knew and lost in 07 doesn’t stand a snowballs chance in hell of coming back. Interestingly the whole Mephisto thing wasn’t exactly a new idea it was meant as the culmination of the clone saga it would be revealed that the devil was the leader of the Scriers and responsible for all of the problems Peter ever experienced this is why Aunt May was “dying” around 400, Kraven’s Last Hunt to the Saga were dark and The Clone Saga was terrible specifically because everyone hated the marriage so much there are literally 160 issues of ASM that were failed attempts to kill the marriage and 30-40 trying to spare it. The Clone Saga was terrible because it was nothing but a snowball of a dozen failed ideas to kill it but it only got stronger and the ultimate irony of it is the only reason Peter survived that nightmarish torture was because he had the strength that Came From The Marriage on every level physically mentally and emotionally Peter is twice as strong with her. When OMD came it was a delayed mess because Quesada had the talent of a housecat when it came to writing his vendetta’s and JMS while unable to change the outcome which ruined everything he had written for Spider-Man give the story a tiny semblance of sense and prevent the maniac from doing stupid things like bring Gwen back from the dead. And if anyone thinks that Slott is somehow a good writer get this Quesada didn’t have the skill to write OMIT and he says that Slott was instrumental in helping him get it worked out. And they lie I can take Slott having some deceptive covers but Quesada really you lied to us when you said there was going to be no magic retcon you and Slott lied to us when you suggested that 600 would fix anything and you did it again with OMIT. The truth with Spider-Man is that there is no status quo there are very simple rules for the characters to follow and they evolve in slow, natural and very meaningful ways there is no true status quo but a proper evolution. The only reason people think that Peter Parker is even half played out is because 1. The abysmal talent and agendas of writers since JMS and 2, How writers and editors keep cowering away from developments that open the door for HUNDREDS OF STORIES! Also if “only the marriage has changed” with the BND verse (if Mephisto actually time traveled than an actual marriage erase would violate cause and effect.) When Quesada inserts words into MJ’s mouth and says that marriage is just a piece of paper without children even that mischaracterization is no excuse because if “only the marriage changed” Mayday was still born and kidnapped why then would they want to be out of wedlock parents? This will they or wont they, will he come back or not is constantly dangled over our heads and it amounts to what Bane said “There can never be hope without despair.” We don’t read comics to see our characters forever doomed we allow the obstacles to come because we want to see them OVERCOME they are meant to give us hope not the opposite! Iv said what I came her to say until Marvel gets a heart transplant here’s a scene from ASM 365 by DeFalco.
“To this day I’m happy I helped bring them together if only for such a little while. Gwen was so sweet, so unselfish, that she deserved all the happiness she could get – Because it was destined to end too soon, too tragically soon! Even now after all these years, I can hardly bear to think about it! During a battle with the Green Goblin, once again Peter suffered an agonizing loss! Even though I knew I would only be his second place I was there that time to comfort him and to love him.”
“Slowly I put the photos back in the album. My eyes were too misty to see them clearly any longer. Even knowing the fate of poor Gwen – Even knowing that my life too, might always be in jeopardy – Even knowing the agony I endure each time Peter web swings into the gathering darkness – I wouldn’t trade our marriage for the world!”
This guy Robert on DeviantArt has a pretty good critique
http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/Superior-Spider-Man-So-Far-page4-398736858 http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/The-Greatest-Threat-399887779
That is pretty funny. 🙂 Thanks for the share.
I got it backwards as you probably noticed there can never be despair without hope.
Honestly at this point I just want someone to apologize for one writer at Marvel even if they have nothing to do with Spider-Man to be able to acknowledge the sins of the past few years without having to worry about losing their job that’s it. When the Clone Saga became a complete failure DeFalco took responsibility for his co-workers mess and gave us a 135 issue apology letter. Spider-Girl 135 issues for those who thought they’d never buy a Marvel Comic again. I find it HIGHLY ODD that to this day Marvel has not even given people a What If? About One More Day honestly even a What If that doesn’t nastily try to make it look like making a deal with the devil was a good idea. Is that too much to ask they made one for Back In Black? Anyway I have stopped working on the second part of my manifesto and deleted it why should I waste 5,000 words on this forum to state the obvious. Until I offer that analysis/solution that obviously will not be implemented here are some more jokes.
http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/Superior-Spider-Man-Predictions-Part-1-348407732
http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/Superior-Spider-Man-Predictions-part-2-348408594
http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/ASM-700-Page-2-347174780
http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/Superior-Spider-Man-So-Far-page3-398736336
http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/Superior-Spider-Man-So-Far-page2-398735659
http://robertmacquarrie1.deviantart.com/art/Superior-Spider-Man-So-Far-page1-398735096
I just want to make this very clear I have said a lot of very passionate things but I’m not your normal comic fan I am very very forgiving. I have read 1200 issues of Marvel before and while I have at times been disappointed there are only four things that I have ever read that made me angry or offended not even the disastrous mess that was the Clone Saga did. Here is the list of the four things just four things that Marvel has done that I haven’t forgive them for.
1. OMD/OMIT
2. Superior Spider-Man
3. Making Ultimate Reed Evil
4. The Ultimates
So for someone who invested in buying 1200 issues am I very petty? Does my opinion matter? Am I really a hater? As I’ve said I have let go of my hate and when I deal with these issues they are as impersonal, results oriented and objective as I can manage.
My accounts STILL aren’t working. I’ve said before that if it was I’d be willing to speak with Slott without a word of criticism. Anyway I find some of Spock’s rationalizations hilarious like how he tries to get peoples permission for his executions to absolve him of guilt, how his idea of holding back is maiming people regardless of how relatively harmless some might be and my personal favorite It doesn’t matter if my own private army invaded a neighborhood by means of blackmail and killed fifty ninjas if there are no bodies in the morgue then I somehow didn’t kill fifty ninjas. Honestly if the end of this series doesn’t ruin Parker’s life too much and some aspect do improve I will forgive him. I’m serious it was a selfish story that followed over half a decade of selfish stories but I could that’s how tolerant I am and why the opinions of Marvel’s customers are worth a shit.
I’ve read some of the dialogue of SSM 21 and its downright hilarious Otto is talking with his Marconi about how he’s going to get back at the professor his plans include ladders, pirhannas, kraken and even a life model decoy seriously if I was Marconi id be running away or something but she just thinks he’s venting/joking.
I did read Slott’s works before SSM 9 not much of it just the Return Of Anti-Venom paperback I was really curious about it and it was so so the inventor cover is probably the one good thing Dan really did it’s a good cover for Parker that means he technically doesn’t have to lie all the time. But his whole run feels like a kid playing with his toys everything is a prop. Obviously Mary Jane is the biggest victim of the idiot virus spreading around since it would only take seconds for her to find out and obviously Slott’s excuse with the soul thing was just that an excuse but it’s something I’m ALMOST willing to accept because it shows the same kind of faith that made her’s the lesser sin in OMD. Anyway I can’t enjoy the ride it is true that I don’t know what to expect and at the end it’s up to the kid whose planning year ahead to decide how the aftermath will turn out. Since any obvious suggestions won’t be appreciated I have one piece of advice for him.
You’ve been playing around with your old toys to much the only played out part of Spider-Man are the villains with such a great rogues gallery that is a very hard thing to do and is largely a result of your run if and when Peter comes back shuffle some other ones in from the Marvel U or create 3 or 4 new ones so that we can have a thirty issue break.
As for this new Ms. Marvel thing I don’t care at all if a character is more popular than another character it has much more to do with who the character is and the talents of the writer than race. I don’t even mind political correctness for the sake of political correctness so long as new characters aren’t attached to or replace established ones.
Have you ever heard of the horseshoe theory of politics? The further out you go, the closer you get to the other side. Empire, Monarchy and Aristocracy are on the far right.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, Rhodri. I appreciate it.
Yes, I have heard of that. So you would categorize the former Soviet Union as right wing extremists? I would not. Regardless, I think we can both agree that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The old saying has a lot of truth to it…
It is for that reason that I believe in limited government. As the size and scope of government expands individual liberties contract.
‘So you would categorize the former Soviet Union as right wing extremists?’
No. Heh, I was trying to reply to someone else further up the thread. I’m saying that they’re closer to the Fascist Right Wing than they are to the average Centre Left politician.
‘Regardless, I think we can both agree that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.’
Agreed. That’s why I tend to stay dead centre in my politics, maybe leaning a little leftwards.
Hey Rhodri: you ever heard of the sliding bar of government control? Empire, Monarchy, Aristocracy, Fascism, Nazism, Communism, and Neo-Liberalism are all far left on that scale while Anarchy (the farthest right) is far right.
Doug, while I disagree with your politics, I cannot fault your views on Spider-Man: they match mine perfectly. Nor can I fault your views on Dan Slott.
It might interest you to know that whenever there’s a conversation on Twitter where he’s losing/looks bad, the tweets mysteriously disappear, as I found out – I noted the Mengele like behaviour of SSM during the Annual (though it wasn’t written by Slott, it was written with his blessing) and that his sleeping with Anna something in SSM #22 is rape by fraud, and then following up by noting how Spider-Man is a role model and what said role model was doing.
Naturally, he immediately resorted to ad hominem attacks, saying I was and when I called him on this, he got defensive. Then the tweets started disappearing.
Coincidence? Nope.
The one good thing about Dan Slott’s run on SSM is that it’s so bad that in many ways it transcends politics.
If you haven’t seen it already, you might like my post on Marvel’s Orwellian message boards.
There are two others that may be of interest to you:
1. Dan Slott’s Superior Spider-Man: Body-snatching rapist confirmed in issue 22
2. Bleeding Cool calls out Dan Slott’s creation — a ‘Nazi-like’ Superior Spider-Man
I’ve found that it’s good to take screen shots when dealing with Dan Slott for precisely the reason you’ve stated. When you start making Dan Slott look bad online, he tries to find ways to make it disappear. That’s one of the reasons why he won’t come here. He knows he doesn’t have a moderator who will a.) save him from himself, b.) erase evidence when he gets intellectually taken to the cleaners and c.) ban individuals who can tactfully dismantle SSM.
I haven’t, and it was you I was trying to reply to earlier. Under those conditions, I can see how you would categorise it as far left – though, of course, to most, far left means something rather different.
He could say “I ripped his brain from his head and wore him like puppet”……..but then he’d unveil himself but he can’t NOT gloat about it because that’s going against Otto’s greatest failure, his arrogance
Wow, I thought I was alone in my hatred of SSM. Slott has sent an important message to kids everywhere. Evil will win, because it is patient. Terrible. For myself I have given up all my Marvel subscriptions, no longer bother to go to the comic book store and will continue this ban until they restore Peter.
Asurbo, thanks for taking the time to read and comment. You are most certainly not alone in your disdain for SSM. Feel free to vent here anytime.
The guys over at “Marvel’s gone wack: A Memorial To The Real Peter Parker” have a site you might like as well.
People have a disturbing tendency to defend Peter Parker, as if he is an upstanding individual who did not deserve his life ruined five times over. To this day he has yet to face proper punishment for selling his unborn daughter’s soul to Mephisto. Doc Oc’s entire body of work cannot even compare. Mephisto is an evil cosmic manifestation who has destroyed a galaxy to prove it, which if you remember in Marvel, are POPULATED. And Peter Parker still helped this monster, he did not even have the decency to give up his own soul but that of the most innocent person imaginable. Peter Parker’s as evil as Noble Kale’s father, yet people defend him! No, Peter does not deserve to be murdered and replaced, nor do his friends and family deserve Doc Oc but that’s not the argument anyone makes.
If Marvel had any sense Peter would be confronted on and punished for his most grievous sin but seeing how everyone just likes to pretend One More Day never happened, getting wiped out of existence by Doc Oc was the best we could have hoped for. As far as I am concerned, not only is everything Mephisto did after One More Day Parker’s fault but every failed attempt to defeat him is Parker’s fault too. Mephisto never had the ability to manipulate history in the manner shown in One More Day until he acquired the soul of Peter’s baby, so obviously Mephisto is manipulating probability to ensure he always comes out ahead. In fact, everything in the past that should have defeated Mephisto but did not for nebulous reasons, such as replacing him as ruler of his realm, is also probably Peter Parker’s fault. Gotta love time travel stories.
And when Mephisto inevitably conquers the splinter realms with his new powers and defeats all cosmic forces short of the Tribunal that will be Parker’s fault too. In fact, the Tribunal will probably judge a universe where this happened as unfit for continued existence. That is how 616(appropriate #) will end, all because Peter Parker turned to the closest thing he knew to the devil, refusing to take responsibility for his actions and live with them. The Superior Spider-man comic tried to make Otto Octavious look like a bad guy by stealing the Venom symbiote, which just shows how easy Parker fans are appeased. It should have continued on the path of Otto’s redemption while proving him superior to Parker. The fact you people complained about that direction means Marvel needs to beat just how wrong Peter Parker’s actions were over your heads, rather than tip toeing around it.
Can you troll any harder? You do realize that the same people who thought OMD was an abomination feel the same way about what the writers have now done to Peter with SSM, right? Of course you do, but you’re a troll so you want to make it seem like the Mephisto “deal” was actually something the character Peter Parker would have done.
The same “geniuses” who thought that One More Day was “edgy” and “cool” thought the same thing about Superior Spider-Man. The writers have been betraying Peter Parker for years, and they do it because trolls like you (i.e., PeterParkerIsSuck) will buy their crap and defend them.
For those non-trolls, here’s me five years ago with my very first YouTube post. It was prompted by how bad OMD/BND was and Marvel’s Orwellian message boards.
Related: Dan Slott and Marvel’s Orwellian message boards can’t hide the truth: Fans want Peter Parker
… I really hope that this is an April Fools joke. On the off chance that it isn’t and for my own amusement.
First, One More Day was mandated by Joe Quesada, who is essentially a whiny little child with the toxic combination of too much power and the writing skills of a potato. He didn’t like the fact that Spider-Man had changed since he was a kid, so he changed it in the most ridiculously contrived way that went against the entire ethos of the series and, indeed, the character.
Second, on Mephisto supposedly conquering all the realms… this stupidity actually hurts my brain. Mephisto is, at best, hovering around medium Skyfather level in terms of power. There are literally dozens of entities that can roll straight over him. Odin, Zeus, Dormammu, Galactus, the Celestials, Death etc.
Third, he made sure said daughter was never born. He didn’t get her soul.
Fourth, if you don’t realise that Otto is a bad guy, you either have a poor understanding of morality, or are completely brain dead.
I like how he pretends that an editorial mandate — that all Peter Parker fans know was out of line with everything the character stood for — is somehow evidence that Peter is a bad character. If he did make the deal, he would go to “the ends of he earth” to fix it. Sadly, Dan Slott’s “Ends of the Earth” story did not involve Peter righting that wrong, but instead helped launch SSM.
It wouldn’t even be that hard to fix. Either cash in the favour that Loki owes Peter, or get a telepath on the Nate Grey scale involved, or, indeed, have Mephisto turn out to be Mojo in disguise and that the whole of Brand New Day has basically been his manipulating Peter’s life for better ratings, hence the ridiculous love interests, stupid sidekick and plot idiocy. Not only is it plausible – since that was ostensibly why OMD was done – but potentially a sharp critique of the comics industry and Quesada and there’s the fact that Peter and Mojo crossed paths in ‘Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine’.
if you don’t realise that Otto is a bad guy, you either have a poor understanding of morality, or are completely brain dead.”
I think we can conclude that anyone with the screen name “PeterParkerIsSuck” isn’t very bright.
I think another issue is that some people fail to grab onto the fact that there is a big difference between the pre-OMD and post-OMD interpretations of the Peter Parker.
On an editorial level, the post-OMD version of the character is written largely out of character usually to setup various plot twists/conveniences. This in turn makes the character unlikeable to some degree.
For example in Superior Spiderman, Peter Parker was portrayed out of character during the whole little girl dying shtick to make SpOck more likeable than Peter so that the run could last the full 30 issues (because without attempting to humanize SpOck, even the most rusted-on fans would have dropped the title early on). What is interesting about this particular occurrence is that discussions on Crawlspace and Comicvine definitively pan this entire situation as being a flawed premise.
Look at the pre-clone saga Peter Parker and compare it to Slott’s post-OMD and you’ll see a bigger difference in portrayal. Heck compare Bendis’s post-OMD portrayal of Peter and Slott’s post-OMD portrayal of Peter and you’ll notice a big difference (Bendis’ Peter is more likeable and in character).
Pow. That was another instance where any true fan of the character would call bulls**t. They make Peter behave in strange ways, hoping that over time they’ll jerk him around enough to where no one will know what he once stood for. Why is Dan Slott so obsessed with body-swapping and mind-wipes of Peter Parker if he loves the character? How convenient for Dan Slott that he gets to write a character who doesn’t know who he is. It allows Dan Slott to write all sorts of behavior the real Peter Parker would never engage in while simultaneously trying to imprint a “new” Peter Parker paradigm on the comic community’s consciousness. Say that five times fast. 😉
Get this guy off the book. What an embarrassment.
@ Riablo
I wholeheartedly agree. Brian Michael Bendis gets it. He excels at writing a genuine characterization of Peter Parker.
Just a heads up: the review of Superior Spider-Man #30 is up.
I will admit I misremembered exactly what happened to Peter Parker’s daughter. But that is all I am conceding. You can argue about directors and editors all you want but One More Day is still in continuity and was a major failure on Peter Parker’s part yet to be resolved. The more it is ignored the worse it makes him look.
Okay, I will concede something else, the Mojo twist is a good idea. It addresses why Mephisto was able to display power he never had before if he did not actually get anything out of the deal. Mojo is an X-men villain so it would not be the best way to resolve it but I could accept it.
Mephisto being around sky father level is not something to dismiss however, lest you forget drawing the Odinsword would destroy the universe. The splinter realms are the remains of Elder gods who were chewed up, swallowed and vomited by the demogorge, Elder gods birthed by the Demiurge to defend Earth’s biosphere, which would be under threat of invasion by technarchy, celestials, Galactus and yes, sky fathers such as Odin. The only thing that keeps Mephisto’s threat level relatively low is his perpetual power struggle with his “brothers”. Giving him any sort of edge risks a crisis of cosmic proportions and as of now that is on Peter Parker’s head.