Written by Suey Park is a young liberal feminist who recently gained some notoriety within academic circles for starting the Twitter hashtag “#NotYourAsianSidekick.” She told the Washington Post she wanted to “create a space where Asian American feminism does not leave any group behind and where they’ll be anything but a sidekick.” Her story gives us a unique opportunity to identify what the next crop of liberal American feminists represent.
Before doing that, it is probably best to familiarize yourself with Dinesh D’Souza, the author who immigrated to the U.S. from India decades ago. In August of 2000 he sat down with C-SPAN and said the following about America:
I come from a middle-class family. My father is a chemical engineer; my mom, a housewife. And I’ve thought hard about what is it [about America] that has made my life different […] and I would answer this way: If I had stayed in India, if I’d remained, I would have probably ended up living one mile from where I was born. I would probably have married a girl of my identical religious and socioeconomic background. I would probably be a doctor or a lawyer or a software programmer, and I would have a whole set of opinions that could be predicted in advance. By coming to America, my life has taken a totally different shape. I became interested in American politics. I […] went into writing and journalism, public speaking. I joined the government, the Reagan administration. So America, in a sense, gave me the chance to write the script of my own life. And I think that’s the intoxicating appeal of America to outsiders, it’s a country that’s sort of like a blank sheet of paper and you are the artist, and you get to create your own destiny instead of having it given to you.
America is a country where you write the script of your own life. It’s a country that is like a “blank sheet of paper” and you are “the artist” who creates his or her own destiny instead of having it given to you.
Remember that.
Suey Park is like most liberal feminists — they spend an inordinate amount of time trying to blame others for the obstacles to their advancement. They live in the past, looking for the elusive boogeyman who made them feel sad, angry, insecure, weak or confused. In those cases where there is a grain of truth to their complaints, they inflate it into a mountain that they can endlessly traverse.
When did Ms. Park find her excuse mountain? Childhood.
Suey Park: It was a long time ago — from when I was really young. Even from the start of kindergarten, I was quickly racialized and made to understand that I was different based on what my mom packed for me in my lunch bag. On the playground other kids would pull their eyelids to their side and run around and chase me. I always thought to myself that someone must have taught them that. What kid would know to put their hands on their eyelids and make their eyes slanted? It’s not like they would look at an Asian girl for the first time if they never heard of Asians and do that. So it really proved to me that racism is taught.
Things seem so much bigger than they really are when we’re young. Sadly, for Ms. Park, the childhood trials and tribulations all kids go through have been turned a weird affirmation of American racism. Is it more likely that some dumb mean kids saw someone who looked different and responded to it like dumb kids have for thousands of years — or that parents instilled Asian hate in their kids when they tucked them in at night?
Kids can be downright mean in their attempts to come across as smart, witty or popular. Sometimes, insecure kids become bullies to mask their pain. “Mom is an alcoholic. Dad is abusive. Might as well go pick on the scrawny kid to make myself feel like I’m in control…”
Jerks make fun of fat kids, skinny kids, birthmarks, overbites, glasses, the tall, the short, the shy, white kids, black kids, Hispanic kids and yes, Asian kids. Those who don’t go through life with race-goggles strapped tight around their head can see that.
Suey Park: As an Asian American woman you’re told that you have to be smart and pretty to be heard. And you have to be exceptional, and of course people want us to be exceptional, so it was hard for me because I did struggle with math and science and I couldn’t live up to the ideals of what my sister could. So then I internalized that I had to be the pretty one and that I had to be the thin one and that became extra hard for me as I hit puberty and I wanted to hold onto it.
We’re back to childhood again. Freud would have a field day with Ms. Park. Keep that in mind as she discusses her eating disorder and the big boogeyman reveal.
Suey Park: I also think there’s also a lot of silence around mental health issues and eating disorders in Asian American families whether it be because of a cultural barrier or a communication barrier. There’s a lot of pressure to not struggle. It was hard for me to tell my parents about my eating disorder because I didn’t want them to know I was struggling because I knew they had sacrificed so much to give me this good life and so-called American dream.
So Ms. Park has a competitive dynamic going on between she and her sister, her parents put pressure on her to succeed, and the household environment wasn’t conducive to talking about emotional and psychological challenges. Sounds like something that any American might deal with, right? Wrong.
Suey Park: I think what was most disappointing was that even some “progressive” white people or “progressive” Asian Americans were telling me that I was demanding too much and telling me that meritocracy exists and that I should stop complaining and try to overcome my circumstances — the typical spiel.
The boogeyman is real, and he is white. Those darn white people and their “spiels” about overcoming adversity. Apparently, Ms. Park hasn’t been hanging out with the progressive white kids from Minnesoata, because they scrawl all over their bodies with black ink in bizarre attempts to shame themselves for their whiteness.
Instead of seeing a blank sheet of paper, Ms. Park sees “white” and then wonders why there isn’t a “Korean” color in her box of Crayola crayons.
Ms. Park continues:
Suey Park: I think a lot of white people have a visceral reaction to the fact that they belong to a structural whiteness. But I think it shows us something really important, which is that fraction of discomfort is nothing compared to a lifetime of being racialized and put in a subordinate class of people in the U.S.
“Structural whiteness.” Feminists like Peggy McIntosh said that “white privilege” was invisible, and that we couldn’t see it. Now Ms. Park comes along to inform us that this invisible whiteness is of immense size and shape — and it’s subordinating Asians. America is a giant mad house that is so insidious that millions of immigrants come here thinking they can shape their own destiny. If Dinesh really understood he was in an oppressive white matrix, he’d realize that his many successes and the American dream he fondly speaks of are figments of his imagination — it’s really only a “so-called” American dream.
Side note: When I was in college I had a professor tell me the American dream didn’t exist. I told him that I was living proof that it did exist. I left home at 18 years old with $100 to my name. I joined the military, and only a few years later I was putting myself through college at the University of Southern California. It took a little longer than I expected after an honorable discharge, requiring some time as an overnight stock boy at Target (as the only white guy, for those obsessed with race), but I got there. I often get nostalgic for those 1:00 a.m. breaks, where I’d watch my coworkers play soccer in the parking lot while I cheered them on and ate tacos from the back of a food truck, but I digress.
Question for Suey Park: Would she prefer something more “structurally Korean”? The gulags in North Korea are filled with Koreans, and sometimes you get to watch your parents get executed. They put rocks in your mouth and then tape it shut before the firing squad gets to work. (We can’t risk the Dear Leader getting disparaged by someone with nothing left to lose, now can we?) I’d talk about South Korea, but the wealth and prosperity it has seen over the last several decades is largely due to its embrace of America’s “structural whiteness” and the safety and security provided by our marbled Armed Forces. Check out satellite imagery of North and South Korea if you’d like to see what “structural whiteness” can do for the nation state nearest you…
The problem with most feminists is that they spend the bulk of their time reading the ramblings of other feminists, and not enough time examining the authors of the greatest experiment in self-governance in the history of mankind. Their intellectual wells on Washington, Jefferson, Madison and John Jay are dry, but they run deep on Gloria Steinem wannabes.
A bunch of really white guys hundreds of years ago laid down a road map for achieving levels of freedom and individual liberty that, to this day, is an aberration in much of the world. The ideas embedded in the Declaration of Independence and codified into the law by the U.S. Constitution transcend race. America is not structured around “whiteness” — it is structured around freedom and liberty. That is what millions of immigrants get, and what Americans like Ms. Park either a.) fail to understand or b.) willfully downplay to concentrate on a level of racism that simply does not exist in modern America.
In the end, we all want to be happy. Even though I disagree with Ms. Park, I want her pursuit of happiness to end well. According to her Washington Post piece, she has achieved her own definition of success. That’s great, right? Wrong again, white America.
Immediately I’ve become the cool Asian friend and all of my Facebook friends who thought I was really annoying for talking about racism, my feelings and my eating disorder are somehow now tokenizing me as a successful Asian American woman. I mean, how token is that?
At one time Ms. Park was upset because her friends rightfully found her obsession with race annoying. Now that she has found a modicum of success, and they patted her on the back for it, she is perturbed that she has become a “token.” But is she really a token — or just a token in her own mind?
No matter what happens to Ms. Park, there is always something to complain about.
Congratulations, Ms. Park — you are the quintessential liberal feminist.
Related: U.S. feminists worry over pressure to ‘wear Ugg boots’ while India still deals with dowry
Related: Colbert cannibalized by liberals for joke using Asians: The thought police always turn on its own
Douglas Ernst Blog 
I think we need to listen. What are the gender and race structures in our society, and how do those structures influence our behaviors, and how do those behaviors make people feel?
I’ve listened and cry B.S. after putting through a logic reason and fact machine.
As I’ve said before, I’ve always found it laughable that I’m somehow “privileged” because I’m a straight white guy. That couldn’t be farther from the truth, as I’ve had to work hard to get things and also to earn respect. I don’t carry a privilege card in my wallet.
Like a lot of people, Park would rather blame some boogeyman on her problems than admit to her own imperfections.
When people say you have privilege for being a straight white guy they are referring to the problems you don’t have to deal with because you are a straight white guy. It isn’t saying that you don’t work hard, or that you are rich.
Simply by not being gay you don’t deal with the problems a gay person deals with due to being homosexual.
For example when you walk down the street holding the hand of your gf or wife you are probably not going to be verbally insulted or spat at. A gay person on the other hand more likely than not will deal with this multiple times in their lives, some on a regular basis.
So you have the privilege of not dealing with that. Which isn’t something you are doing wrong or to feel bad about. But if because you don’t deal with these problems you start assuming that that no one else has to deal with it either then your privilege in this area is blinding you to the plight of others.
You don’t think I haven’t dealt with problems in my life? I have Asperger’s syndrome, so I know what it’s like to be picked on and singled out for being “slow.” I was bullied in middle school and called “retard kid” and got into fights instigated by people who wanted to “pound the retard.” However, I refuse to use that as an excuse for everything that goes wrong for me, unlike Ms Park who seems to think that “structural whiteness” is responsible for her own personal problems. I don’t accept excuses.
I am straight and white and a male, but that did not save me from the bullying and mistreatment I received while growing up in a predominately Asian and Hispanic part of California.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, A.m. Cas. I’m sorry to inform you, but as a straight white male your opinion is not valid. You were an oppressor even as a child, and those bullies were really just reacting to the oppressive ways in which you ate your Snack Packs and Fruit Rollups during break time in 3rd grade. The way you ate your pudding reminded your classmates on a cellular level of the ways your ancestors lorded their ability to eat high caloric foods over slaves and other people of color. The proof of your racist ways is, indeed, in the pudding. 😉
LOL, Doug. That made me chuckle. It really describes the mindset of people like the Dublin troll to a T.
And how exactly is he to blame for being born as a straight white male? Because by Suey and generally all/any feminazis, the this is used as a derogatory term to imply out of stupidity or ignorance in a characteristically racist manner.
In fact, lets skip on the question how its his fault for being born as such and thus why blamed for it.
Explain it to me how the argument “white straight” is not racism AND sexism in one single pack.
The very nature of the privilege argument is the very passive aggressive notion feminists are accusing males with. That basically im an oblivious as***ole because I was born white and male.
This coming from people who are supposedly oppressed.
Also: Just because I CAN walk on the street holding my girl firend’s hand, it does not mean I can’t wholly and completely understand the concept of “what if I could not, because I would be insulted for it”.
No matter how you look at such arguments, “feminism” will never come out of them unsullied, because they are contradictory, stupid, racist, and basically (and literally) everything they accuse the opposition with, further fueling hilariousness by being completely oblivious to the double standards, hypocrisy and demagogy they are using.
She is simply a nut case who should be institutionalized instead of allowed to be on the media.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, Aerensiniac. I appreciate it.
Indeed. Whenever someone denies that enormous amount of projection happening with these individuals I can’t help but laugh.
This blog post is exactly why the hashtag, #notyourasiansidekick is necessary. So her dissatisfaction with constantly having to validate her existence as a woman of color isn’t important because you say it isn’t? Sounds like white supremacy to me.
Doug’s wife, who he has mentioned on a couple of occasions on this blog, is a medical doctor and also of Chinese origin. Clearly, Doug is racist and has taken your theory of white subjugation of Asian women to a whole other level, right? Goodness. Some people see a racist boogeyman under every bed.
It’s sad that anyone feels like they have to validate their ethnicity to anyone else. Who really cares what her ethnicity is? I don’t. Not sure why she needs to blame her eating disorder and birth order insecurities on the “institutional racism” boogeyman. Maybe scapegoating whitey instead if confronting her inner demons is easier for her.
I agree, Lightbringer. Like I said, blaming boogeymen is easier for some than to admit to their own imperfections.
So I guess straight men can’t be sexist cause they find women attractive lol
I’m going to take a stab in the dark and say that you didn’t do so well on the analogies section on the verbal portion of the SAT or ACT test.
Keep defending the weird rantings of Suey “only white people can be racist” Park, Mr. Lop.
Side note: I like how part of your email address is “coolguy.” Talk about “lol.” Do you send that to potential employers? And when they turn you down do you just shrug your shoulders and say, “damn the white man and his white privilege!” instead of honing in on the fact that you have ‘coolguy’ in your email address?
I know if I were an employer, I wouldn’t hire someone with such an email address. I’d want to hire an employee with a little bit more maturity than that. Anyone who believes in “white privilege” and other academic gobbledygook needs to get out more. Leave the confines of the liberal university.
@Stew
Hey Stew, as a Puerto-Rican dude, I like this so called ‘white supremacist’ a million times more than the people who would so cavalierly call him a ‘white supremacist.’
Also, his wife’s from China.
Deal with it.
I’m not calling him a white supremacist, I’m referring to white supremacy as a system of beliefs and institutions that discredits the lived experiences of people of color and values those of whites. Instead of him trying to empathize what Suey Park and other people (particularly women) of color have to go through and live with in America, he just brushes it to the sides as if those experiences don’t matter and they aren’t of any importance. This isn’t an issue whites have to deal with since American culture is focused around white culture, eurocentric standards of beauty, etc. It is what it is.
Stew’s introduction:
Stew, after getting called out on his ridiculous claim:
How did I discredit Ms. Park’s experiences? Because I didn’t pat her on the back and tell her how great she is? As empathize with plenty of what Ms. Park said. We’ve all been made fun of at some point in our lives. We’ve been bullied. We’ve had sibling rivalries and difficult times talking to our parents. I know people with PTSD, who struggle to overcome mental health issues, etc.
Years ago I dated a Hispanic woman and I had someone berate her Spanish — right in front of my face without me knowing it — for dating a white guy. She told me after the fact because she didn’t want to upset me.
At a party I attended a year ago, I extended my hand to greet someone at a relative’s house. A friend of the family refused to shake my hand. Could it have something to do with the fact that she has something against white people? I don’t know and I don’t care. I just know the woman was a jerk and for me to dwell on her and cry about it would be to give her much more power than she deserves.
Would you like me to go on with ways I empathize with Ms. Park? The difference between myself and Ms. Park is that I don’t live in the past. Instead of believing that the world happens to me, I live each day believing that I happen to the world. I refuse to see myself as a perpetual victim. If that’s what you consider “white supremacy,” then I just feel sorry for you.
Nice try. If I was grading you on this back flip I’d score you a 7.5. You didn’t quite stick that landing.
Re-read your post, Stew. You wrote that his viewpoint “[s]ounds like white supremacy to me.” You can attempt to retroactively mute that, but you wrote it and there are not edit buttons except for Doug on this blog. Maybe you wrote it out of anger or a bout of anonymous internet commenter syndrome, but it’s not cool to call someone that. Writing that this lady is conflating identity and self-esteem issues with white authority or whiteness or whatever flavor of “it ain’t my fault, it’s whitey’s” that’s popular isn’t going to pass here without some deep scrutiny.
Spot on, Lightbringer. Anyone who has read this blog for awhile knows that sometimes we have knock-down, drag-out bouts over a whole slew of issues, which is why I’m much more inclined to stop and re-evaluate what I’m saying if you take issue with it as opposed to…random dudes like Stew, who call me a racist in order to end the debate.
I know what I said, and I know I said “sounds like white supremacy to me”. But I was NOT calling him a white supremacist or I would have said exactly that. But I don’t believe he is a white supremacist at all. Like I said before, I was referring to white supremacy as a system of institutions and beliefs that value whiteness and devalues other cultures.
Person Who Is Person, my wife read this reply and laughed out loud (in a good way). She liked your “deal with it” line.
But seriously, thanks for the kind words.
Wait until my relatives find out about this whole white supremacy thing… It’s going to be a awkward Christmas. Or not. The knee-jerk racism charge is always a tell-tale sign you’re dealing with someone who is intellectually bankrupt.
And why and how exactly am I the one who’s intellectual bankrupt?
Please enlighten me.
Your instinct was to try and slime me as some sort of white supremacist instead of actually having a discussion.
The race card is the laziest charge someone can make because once you make it there’s really no way to defend against it. The person charged can never prove what’s inside their heart, so once it’s out there the person must expend time and energy diffusing it instead of talking about the issue. Instead of taking quotes from my actual piece, you just stated a case I never made (i.e., Suey Park’s concerns aren’t worth talking about), and reacted to it by labeling me a racist. Then, when Lightbringer held you to task, you backpedaled. At least your second post actually had content that could be used as a springboard for serious discussion.
This person Stew along with the hashtag, #notyourasiansidekick is why this blog is necessary. An endless supply of material. Note to people wanting to sound reasoned or smart: before you go the brain dead route and we see the usual “white supremacy, racist, bigot” route-prove the persons points WRONG with facts, reason or logic first. Unless you can’t?
I quite enjoy watching Suey ruin her potential of ever getting hired by anybody with her 17k-and-growing database of public meltdown tweets mixed with regular splashes of psycho and stupid. Can we pleas export her to North Korea? She’d be so happy there. Only Asians and socialism. It’s a utopia for her.
In most workplace environments you have to work as a team, and I don’t see her doing so well at that at this point in her life. How does her introduction to the team go: “Hi, my name is Suey. I think you’re racist so try not to disagree with me, okay? Just do what I say and we’ll get through this.”
What she does is good for shock value…but it's not conducive to putting together long-lasting and effective coalitions.
“Is it more likely that some dumb mean kids saw someone who looked different and responded to it like dumb kids have for thousands of years — or that parents instilled Asian hate in their kids when they tucked them in at night?”
So Doug, I’m assuming that you have a fairly constrained view on the nature of man?
I think man has the capacity of great good or great evil within him. He has to choose which one he’s going to embrace. For any number of reasons, some men have hard hearts. We are fallible beings who regularly fall short of our human potential.
If we have free will and universal truths exist, then it stands to reason that some would choose to do evil instead of good. The body and mind our continuously temped by the “sins of the flesh.” The ego wants nothing more than to become slaves to our basest desires. Those who realize this and rise above it our more often than not rewarded.
Inequality will always exist because free will exists. Sometimes, inequality is actually a good thing (e.g., it can show what kinds of systems work and which kinds of systems to not work). The idea that we can create heaven on earth (or something even remotely comparable) is not a joke — it’s downright scary. The political classes that dedicate themselves to creating on heaven on earth dedicate themselves to tyranny, because that is always what happens when they attempt to play God and fail.
Frankly I could care less what this whiny loser has to say or how she feels.
Suck it up sistah. Only the tough survive in any society.
Jim, have you been listening to Five Finger Death Punch’s “The Pride” lately? 😉
I’m actually a fan of FFDP (they have a strong presence in my “weightlifting” set list), but I don’t think their message will work will with someone like Christina, who has at least shown a willingness to discuss the issues. I’m comfortable calling Ms. Park the quintessential liberal feminist, but not a loser.
In what I hope is not a fruitless attempt to try and share knowledge, here is some reading/listening about privilege and why this conversation is important and why so many of us (from a diversity of racial and SES backgrounds) need to have it. In no order:
http://bit.ly/1fPfQET (Tolerance.org on White Privilege)
http://bit.ly/1fPePN2 (McIntosh’s piece on White Privilege)
http://1.usa.gov/1fPgd2r (CAPAC’s breaking down of the Model Minority Myth)
http://bit.ly/1fPgAda (This American Life: House Rules. Act I is particularly helpful)
http://bit.ly/1fPfdv7 (Spoken Word: Black Bruins)
http://bit.ly/1fPfpKX (Spoekn Word: In Response to an Anonymous Confession)
http://bit.ly/1fPfHBs (Courageous Conversations About Race)t
As someone who also went to USC and very much feels her family lived the American dream as immigrants, I also understand how much harder that was because my father is Mexican and my mother is Filipina. I also understand how much easier I have it because of privilege their college education afforded me. Just because some are able to rise above the institutionally racist problems that exist in our society does not mean it’s an equal or level playing field for all.
There is no such thing as a “level playing field” and never will be. Some people come from nice homes, others do not. Some people are highly intelligent; others are not. Some people are connected or just plain lucky; others are not. Hundreds of millions of people populate the U.S. and each one has different dreams, desires, etc.
The “rules” should be the same for as many people as possible, but the attempt to create a “level playing field” invites the confiscation of individual liberties.
You say you want to share knowledge, and yet you blast me on Twitter for “white privilege” before ever actually having a conversation:
Telling.
Wow…that IS telling.
And after checking out her profile page and figuring out she presently lives in Hawaii, it’s even more telling…and ironic.
Ironic because, as someone whose lived in Hawaii for three years when he was younger, assuming she lives in Honolulu on Oahu, I can say that, out of all the states she could have said she was from to give some semblance of credibility to her sense of institutionalized racism, Hawaii is probably THE LEAST credible for her to have used. I mean, with California, her claim may have an ounce of truth to it, but Hawaii? HA!
Seriously! I know that after looking at the official population data, whites make up something like half or close to half of the census, but if that statistic was accurate in Honolulu I couldn’t tell you, because of the shear number of Philippinoes, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Vietnamese, other asian people’s I forgot to mention, Pacific islanders, Puerto-Ricans, and some Portuguese peoples I saw there. And even if it was, the idea that all or most of those aforementioned white people are racist is even funnier.
Heck, I remember at a Catholic school I attended in elementary there (one that taught both creationism and unified evolutionary theory, undoubtedly much to the chagrin of Lightbringer) that I once got my pulled and chewed out by the nuns for getting caught doing a stupid dance (I was much stupider when I was a kid than I am now, if you can believe that) where I mimicked that one russian dance and said ‘La la la la la la la la la la I really hate the Jewish,’ to the tune of the can-can because I thought I was doing that one Jewish dance and thought that the can-can was the song that plays during that one Jewish dance…
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…
…
Did I mentioned I was stupider as a kid.
Why, I can’t remember why I even did that. My parents didn’t put that into me, because they chewed me out too when they heard.
My internet wasn’t letting my sign into the blog on my phone earlier, but firstly thanks to Doug for having a nice discussin on Twitter (the one way my phone was letting me communicate). To summarize what I shared there: I didn’t mean for my tweet to put him “on blast,” but rather that knowledge sharing means calling things out when you see them. I certainly didn’t mean to be uncivil, nor do I think Doug has been uncivil towards me in these comments (though, I don’t like the tone of this piece, which I shared), which is appreciated.
To clear up, yes: “Person Who Is Person”, I do live in Honolulu currently, and would agree that it’s MUCH different than anywhere I’ve lived on the mainland (which is one of many reasons why I love living here and plan on staying). However, I was born and raised in Southern California, with much of the last 7 years spent working then teaching in South Central LA (as I mention in my blog quite a few times actually). I have had quite a bit of experience with institutionalized racism, interpersonal racism, and internalized racism. I have seen it play out both in my family and with my students on the macro and micro level. That said, I think the pieces I linked too (esp the “This American Life” piece) are much more eloquent than I am at sharing the truth behind those experiences..
I also wouldn’t discount Hawai’i for having it’s own interesting intersection of race/class or perhaps even better looked at with native/kama’aina and new-comers to the island, especially when you consider the amount of tourist trade that fuels the state. “Honor Killing” by David Stannard was a great book that really helped me gain a better understanding when I moved out here, and as I continue to learn on the island.
Either way, where I live right now doesn’t necessarily mean my argument is or is not valid. I’m just interested because I THINK (and I am open to hearing it if I’m misunderstanding) that this piece and subsequent comments are claiming that we, essentially, live in a “post-racism” or “post-racial” America. I think that we… well, we definitely do NOT, and listed some pieces that support my opinion. I’d be interested to hear a response to THAT instead of, say, an analysis or what my perceived personal situation is.
Let’s back up and look at this another way. The root of these issues is perceived racism, no? So, how in a perfect world would we completely stamp out racism? By being color blind when interacting with our fellow humans. Some of us are already there or well on our way. Some not.
What you are asking me to do it contrary to that goal. How can I be color-blind and treat everyone the same when you want me to ponder what it may be like to be another color? The only result of that empathy exercise is to… recognize divisions and differences and draw conclusions on why we are different. How does that help anyone?
I have friends of all colors, creeds, political viewpoints, and backgrounds. I don’t have the time to empathize with all our differences, every difficulty, advantage, and life experience–if I did, I wouldn’t have the time to live my own life. That doesn’t mean I’m ignorant, lazy, or incapable of empathy; I just focus on what I can control, which is how I treat others. Not to sound cliche, but we all bleed red and are trying to make our way in this world raising kids, working, and paying bills. Aside from a few truly minor differences (race, religion, etc), we are all members of the human race first and the rest is a distant second. I suggest we look at what makes us the same and stop worrying about differences. And especially using them as an excuse for our own problems.
Christina, I’ll get to commenting on some of your other links short, but I’ll go with McIntosh first. I’ve actually talked about her before and linked to it in this post (i.e., my comment about white kids in Minnesota scrawling on their faces with black ink).
When I was at USC I had to read McIntosh’s work. I asked my college professor what I can do on a personal level to combat my “white privilege.” Answer: Nothing. I was “subconsciously racist,” and so to some extent it would always be there. We had a speaker come on MLK day who essentially said the same thing. As I’ve said before, as someone who once had minority military “battle buddies” I would have gladly given up my life for, I found this worldview and the charges leveled against me to be repugnant and depressing.
How convenient for the professors who make a living telling us that the “system” is rigged against minorities and that the American Dream doesn’t exist have found a problem to which there is no solution. It’s “invisible” to the accused and “subconsciously” activated. I can’t do anything about the pigment of my skin either, so there’s also that to deal with.
When you decide that you are powerless to stop something it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe that racism is all around you, then your mind will find ways to validate that decision. Someone who is simply a jerk can be turned into a “racist” who Ms. Park and her friends can talk about over dinner. Someone who was just having a bad day because they just learned some really bad news suddenly is labeled a “racist” when they’re short with you at the checkout counter. Didn’t get that job? I’m sure there are questions, facial expressions or nervous ticks that can be interpreted as racism. The list goes on and on.
I’m sorry, but I will never accept the charge that I am racist. Insensitive? Sure. At times. (Aren’t we all?) But the knee-jerk racism charge (impossible to defend against because no one can truly see what’s in my heart accept God) is the mark of an intellectually bankrupt person. See “Stew’s” initial comment on this post for Exhibit A.
Hi Doug,
Thanks for getting back to me, and your response! I’m firstly really sorry you had such a negative experience with whoever that Prof. was at USC. I actually really disagree with her charge that, as someone who is White, there’s nothing you can do about it. That must’ve been really hard to hear (esp given, like you mentioned, experiences of brotherhood with lots of different folkis), so I get why there’s such a negative reaction to that.
Which actually leads me to another thing I’ve been thinking a lot about race, recently: I think that, sometimes, the negative connotation of the term “racist” makes it very difficult for us to have real conversations and especially with ourselves about race. (http://bit.ly/1bldDvK). As you said, we are ALL a little insensitive some times, and sometimes that is out of a system that (I still feel) is consistently rigged against minorities. Heck, last year, as a Mexican-Filipina who spends much of her day talking about race, I entered a series diversity conversations at my job like, “I’ve got this. I’ve discussed this before.” I was so ignorant. There’s so much internalized racism, both towards myself and towards people in my life I still have to figure out.
I definitely try and push myself to not “gaslight” and see everything (such as someone being a jerk) as tied to race. Still, esp from my time at USC and teaching, I saw so many micro-agressions based on race as well as outright racism (the fact that I still get told to “go back to where I came from” so much is pretty ridiculous), I don’t believe those things are still not prevalent and don’t exist. For me, that was what the #NYAS discussion was all about– sharing experiences to know we were not alone in the subtle but still existent racism many of us still feel today.
Anyway, my last thought right now is, again, around the This American Life piece I heard for the first time myself a few weeks ago. As of the creation of that piece, there was still very subtle racism between Whites vs Blacks being able to get quality housing in NYC (and likely throughout the country), despite equal financial backgrounds. You brought up, earlier, that some people are just brought up in nice households and some aren’t. I agree that life is not always fair. Still, it’s frustrating to think that, simply because of the way I look and my skin color, the years of work I (and my family before me) have put into my education and work history would be overlooked, and I wouldn’t be afforded that same opportunity to offer as nice a household for my family one day.
Doug very much enjoy your blog. While reading some of the back and forths I had an interesting thought. To me the “racism is everywhere even in invisible places like the thread in that Emperors New Clothes story” vs “post racism” viewpoint takes an interesting angle when in my not so humble opinion one is actively trying to destroy the other. What I mean is that a post racist(or whatever drivel terms college professors come up with) society actually acknowledges that racism is NOT everywhere and that people can do things such as marry whomever, not be denied going to schools, so on and so on(in other words a society that is NOT a racial identity obsessed society). Yet time after time I see the usual suspects-the media, left of reality academics, perpetually angry “acitivists”-stoking the flames left and right. And I think they genuinely are creating a fake reality perception wise. Whereby your average Oprah led housewife or Bill Maher watching millennial actually views society like its pre-civil rights era. Its almost as if they want to turn Jeremiah Wrights laughable “Airplane!” speech and turn it into reality. My overall point is that while the viewpoint is NOT true-the stirring of the pot at every turn is creating a new fake normal. Observe how many fake race scandals have we had over and over with the usual 24 hour news crews taking every charge at face value from the get go, as the facts pour in and prove it to be wrong. Ya know funny thing about racism-it requires NO proof from a left leaning person. Think on that, a charge that can do things like get someone fired, destroy a career, election, etc. A sane justice system for other charges require evidence and some means to evaluate it before prosecution. Scary.
Thanks for reading and commenting. I appreciate it!
You’re observations are quite astute. Indeed, they claim to want to live in a post-racial society while simultaneously going through life as an obsessive racial bean counter. They like having the power to destroy entire careers over a single insensitive remark in print, on television or radio. They like using race as a cudgel to beat organizations into ideological submission.
I’ve always said that the racism charge is usually (but not always) the mark of an intellectually lazy person. It requires zero proof. How can I prove what’s inside my heart and mind? I can’t. But once the charge is out there in some sense you need to respond. Even the Peggy McIntoshs of the world say that “white privilege” comes from an “invisible knapsack” that, conveniently, only they can see.
The racism charge essentially shuts down debate, which is exactly what the Suey Parks out there want because when you really start having a substantive discussion on race, culture, politics, etc. … they lose.
I tried two different browsers and for some reason I couldn’t play “Rental Gymnastics” from ‘The American Life’ on my computer. I was able to hear the story of the girl who was upset over the difference in school districts only miles apart, so I’ll comment on that one.
What struck me as interesting in Jada’s interview was that she said the students behaved differently in the worse district than in the better one. As someone who once used to regularly substitute teach for kids in behavioral disorder programs…I can tell you that a few bad kids can make teaching a class a nightmare — but that’s a whole other story.
There are a lot of minority teachers in Chicago Public Schools. Question: Are those teachers any less motivated or capable than those who teach in affluent districts? I would say no. I would also note that plenty of kids in developing countries beat the pants of U.S. students in math and science despite not having wads of cash and high tech computers in the classroom. My point is that sometimes we blame a lack of funding or the teachers when the fact of the matter is this: parents need to be involved. The community needs to be involved. I would be interested to look at the marriage statistics in the district Jade got booted from and compare them to the sub-par district.
Look at some of the poorest cities in the U.S. Let’s take Detroit — controlled and governed by Democrats for decades. Yes, decades. I think most people would admit that the “Republican” footprint in Detroit is non-existent. What is Detroit’s excuse for failing public schools and drop out rates that I can only describe as a cultural meltdown? Racism? I would say that if anyone wants to play the racial blame-game in Detroit and similar cities that it is corrupt minority bureaucrats and politicians who have hurt minorities more than institutional racism.
I generally don’t like to concentrate primarily on money when it comes to education, but I will for a few moments… Like I said, places like India churn out a lot of engineers without the kind of funding the U.S. pays per pupil. When people see money as the answer to all our problems, it also leads them to dehumanize those they seek to help. I can expand on that if need be.
Why has President Obama consistently tried to kill the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program? Why are minority Democrats against vouchers? I mentored kids in the Cesar Chavez Public Charter Schools years ago and saw what can be done to improve education in places as bad as Washington, D.C. Why does President Obama’s kids get to go to Sidwell Friends, but some single mom who would love to use vouchers to send her kid to a better school gets told to shove it from the president? I think that the tendency to play the race card is used by many politicians and pundits because it’s a lot easier to do that than to sit down and hammer out agreements between people with fierce ideological disagreements.
Side note: Years ago I met Virginia Walden Ford. She “gets” the importance of school choice. I’m not sure why so many liberals are more interested in protecting teachers unions than empowering parents.
I couldn’t tell you whether or not “white privilege” exists or not. That makes as much sense to me as “original sin.” If there is, so what? Is anyone to blame people for being born white? Is my infant son to blame for being born into a white, middle-class family? If, by our whiteness, we are either implicitly or explicitly propping up some white barriers to Asian success, I certainly haven’t seen any evidence of that. I agree with Doug, Park might be searching for outside reasons for her own failings.
On a side note, I dislike Dinesh D’Souza, but damn if he does not make a good point in his quote.
Someone’s race as an existence is not a blamable offense. That said, it’s important for ALL of us to understand privilege, who has it, and how it affects everyone. I don’t think being handed power or privilege isn’t an offense, but refusing to acknowledge its existence and how it affects others is.
“I don’t think being handed power or privilege isn’t an offense, but refusing to acknowledge its existence and how it affects others is.”
Which is why you want this supposed power or privilege to be redistributed to each according to his need and ability, right? 😀
@Lightbringer
Look brah, I’m sorry for how I acted in that previous thread and for the sake of our discussion in there, I concede the victory of the debate to you. Not because I think your ideology is right or I cannot refute your claims as to the pristiness of its track record, but because I am tired. I am very tired. If I don’t let this go now, I won’t be able to fine peace in my consciousness and do my best to be kind to those around me this Christmas season, and though I do not celebrate Christmas as it is an extra-biblical doctrine, I do want to get into, at least, the warm and fuzzyness of the season. I am sorry for the cavalier attitude I displayed when I first responded to what you said and wish I had either not responded so or with a less abrasive attitude than the one both nature and environment (abrasive internet atheists) have instilled upon me.
I tell you these things, not as excuses. No. They not excuse my actions. I tell you these things for they are reasons for my actions so that you have a better understanding as to what propelled said actions and thus have a proper basis for your feelings towards me.
So, in summation, I am sorry for how I acted, you have technically won the debate (technically), ans Merry Christmas Lightbringer.
It’s not about winning or losing, Person. At least, I don’t think about it like that. I just wanted to correct the misunderstanding about atheists and genocidal communist regimes. The Ghandi quote was just to illustrate how some Christians use Christianity as a war hammer and completely ignore Jesus’ teachings of “love thy neighbor” and “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Hense, the “so unlike your Christ.” For some reason, “God hates fags” somehow has become the dominant message *some* Christians prefer. My apologies that I did not phrase my response more clearly.
A belated “Merry Christmas” to you too, Person.
The difference between you and Ms. Park, Lightbringer, is that even though you don’t like the guy you were willing to read the quote and judge it on its merits. Ms. Park? She attacked his character because apparently that’s the sort of thing that her followers eat up.
Oh, and then she goes back to playing the victim: “If your intention is to knock me down and keep me from reaching my potential, then you all have succeeded. I hope this makes you happy.”
Sprinkle in a few “fuck everybody” tweets, and you have your modern liberal feminist. I’m sure she’ll be able to build all sorts of lasting coalitions by using the “fuck everyone” method. Or not.
Yep, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell, Doug. Folks like Park heeded their deconstructivist profs at college a little too well. In the real world, it makes for good comedy, and that’s about it.
This perspective bothers me. It basically brushes aside any notion that what people of color think and feel about how they’re treated and mistreated and looked over all our lives is all our imagination–while every day there are people in high society who say and do the most racist things that reflect their feelings and beliefs about people of color. So you’re married to a lady from China–who cares! Does this make you capable of knowing what it feels like to live in a society that prefers white people in every aspect of its culture? NO. These are not brownie points–in fact they sound so similar to white people who claim to have a Black friend or an Asian lover or a Latino cousin like somehow this means they see the world differently. Your assumption that tattoos on white people are put there in shame tells me more about you than you realize.
Here’s the kicker:
“A bunch of really white guys hundreds of years ago laid down a road map for achieving levels of freedom and individual liberty that, to this day, is an aberration in much of the world. The ideas embedded in the Declaration of Independence and codified into the law by the U.S. Constitution transcend race. America is not structured around “whiteness” — it is structured around freedom and liberty.”
Are you serious? Are you aware of the Jim Crow laws? Do you know that white racists exist even though you claim you are NOT one? If you understand everyone isn’t as open-minded as you are you’re also aware the playing field isn’t level and equal–being that it’s run by white people. Does this make sense? Do you understand the feminist movement exists because white men have failed to even gift their daughters and sisters and wives and mothers with equality–much less people of color?
Exactly HOW do you explain the disparaging statistics on wealth, employment, health, etc? Do you surmise that perhaps America’s history has anything at all to do with this? If so, do you accept the notion that ruling white men have made it so? If so, do you suspect that all of those ruling white men are dead and gone–or do you believe some of the values and fears and prejudice is passed onto their children who inherit this power and control?
Think about it.
And of course you’ll have every reason to refute what I’m saying because you can’t see beyond your own whiteness. It’s impossible. And before you claim I’m racist I’ll let this be known: my Mother is white. I’ve lived both sides of this coin.
Actually, I don’t believe any such thing. Does racism exist? Sure. Do enough racists exist in the U.S. to keep “middleman” from attaining the vast majority of his dreams and desires if he lives a good honest life? No. Given that, I think it’s weird to wake up every morning and wonder what sort of racism you might encounter. Do viruses exist? Are some of them deadly, debilitating and painful? Do they strike entire families? Sure. But do you go around every day complaining about each ache and pain? No.
I guess I’ll answer your insulting questions: Yes, and yes. I like how you say I “claim” to not be a racist… Like Lightbringer said, I’m taking white supremacy to a whole new level by marrying outside my race. My sister did the same thing. It’s all part of our master plan…
Are you aware that slavery existed in all cultures throughout human history, and that it was Western Civilization that, for all intents and purposes, brought it to an end? (It still exists in parts of the world, most notably the Middle East.) There are only 535 members of Congress, and quite a few of them are minorities. Each member of Congress wields quite a lot of power, but in your mind the world apparently hasn’t changed much since the Civil War. Black president? Black Attorney General? Eh. Let’s talk about Jim Crow… As I asked earlier, who is to blame for the wretched state of affairs Detroit is in — which has be run by liberal Democrat minorities for decades? Are you seriously going to try and blame white guys for the economic state Detroit is in?
First of all, I didn’t mention my wife in the piece. Someone else did in the comments section. Regardless, I like how you feel the need to try and invalidate my own experiences, (that we’re supposed to put on a pedestal for women like Ms. Park and guys like you), including my marriage to a non-white woman, but then I’m supposed to cheer your experience because your mom is white? Nice try.
I like how you say that it’s “impossible” for me to see beyond my “whiteness.” As I mentioned before, guys like you are the most depressing people out there. Using your logic, the old racists were right — in that black and white people were essentially existing on different planets. This opens the door for each side to claim superiority over one another. I care about the human spirit. I don’t care about color. We’ve been told to try and view everyone by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, but then when we do guys like you want to continue to play racial bean counter for all eternity.
You beat me to it, Doug. And your conclusion is spot-on: If it’s impossible for whites to see beyond their whiteness, then why the f*** even bother? The old racists were indeed correct!
I, like Doug, was married to a woman of color for over 20 years. Our daughter is the product of two races/cultures. I personally prefer to live by the code my parents inculcated in me while growing up: To not see anyone by the mere color of their skin. Y’know, what a magificent man named Martin Luther King Jr. preached. This doesn’t mean ignoring history; however, the problem with people like Park, middleman, et. al. is that they desire history to be an end-all-to-be-all excuse for just about every facet of their lives … no matter how preposterous it may be. This doesn’t even delve into the fact that every other society is akin to the US on the same basis by which these folks want to exist. How do minorities in Japan feel? China? India? Uganda? And then there’s the question the middleman’s can never muster a decent response to: If the US is irredeemably hatefully racist, then why the f*** do people of color from all over the globe clamor to get in here?
Thanks for sharing some of your own experiences, Hube. I appreciate it. In “middleman’s” world, you may have married a woman outside your race and had a beautiful daughter whom you love to death, but you’re still viewed with a suspicious eyes because of what we shall deem your “impossible whiteness.” You “claim” to not be racist…but maybe it’s all ruse. Who knows what racial evil lurks within the mind of Hube! 😉
so we have a white guy using the voice of an Indian woman to shut up a Korean woman.
I wish I could say I was surprised at this racism but white people have been and continue to do this
Wait, you forgot — I also used the voices of Muslim clerics who say it’s okay to rape non-Muslim women to shut up a Korean woman. That’s what us crafty white guys do.
Seriously though, I like how instead of responding to dowry in India or Muslim clerics who advocate rape that your number one priority is to talk about how I’m supposedly a racist guy. Bravo. Thanks for the comment. It’s actually quite telling. I appreciate it.
Welcome to the brave new university/world, Doug!
Anna: One question and one comment. Question: How did Doug “shut up” a Korean woman? Comment: You’re beyond boring, already.
A very brave new world indeed, Hube. 🙂
She said the same thing about me trying to “shut up” Ms. Park in another thread. I replied over there in pretty much the same way you did:
Radio silence on Anna’s end. Sadness. Maybe I somehow shut her up as well using my mysterious white-guy powers.
“My mysterious white-guy powers” LMAO!
Ooops, sorry Anna. I didn’t mean to slip there and let out a laugh. That would be showing my “privilege.” Now feel free to go back to worrying about your First World problems.
@Douglas
Nanananan! White MAN!
If I had a costume, it would be just like Adam West’s Batman suit. You got me. 😉
I’ve always been colorblind as well and have always followed MLK’s advice by judging people by the content of their character as opposed to the color of their skin. I see people as people. People who see everything through a racial lense are the most depressing people out there and yet they have the audacity to call those who are colorblind “racist?” Doing that is a sign of one who is intellectually bankrupt and has nothing to bring to the table but childish name-calling and pathetic accusations of “white supremacy.” That, and these racially-obsessed clowns have a tendency to project their preconcieved notions onto those with whom they disagree.
Now that I have some time to elaborate,
I noticed that a lot of people here are getting super defensive. For what? No one is blaming you for being white, obviously that’s something out of your control. However, we do live in a racialized society that gives whites privileges that other groups do not have. It simply is what it is.
Eating disorders don’t just arise out of nowhere, they are created in social contexts. We live in a society that privileges eurocentric standards of beauty and Suey clearly felt that she was unable to measure up to society’s expectations of her. This isn’t to say that this is the only reason she had an eating disorder, but it’s important to keep the social context in mind and be sensitive to that.
Next, I think the only person who is “intellectually bankrupt” is the person who deflects Suey’s entire argument about her lived experience of being Asian and female in America as someone who’s “whining” and “needs to suck it up” without being able to think critically about her experience and those of other minority groups in relation to whites. But it seems like people here were totally unwilling to understand her point of view and turn her entire argument to some reverse racism banter, as if none of her claims had an ounce of legitimacy to them. That is what I meant when I referred to white supremacy. And at no point did I backpedal, at no point did I take back what I said. Could I have worded that differently? Sure, but I hoped people would understand what I meant since I never called anyone a “white supremacist” but referred “white supremacy” as an abstraction.
If any of you took the time to read the #notyourasiansidekick hashtag on twitter, you would see that much of the major sources of contention were around the model minority myth, the fetishization of asian women, and asian languages and cultures being made a mockery of. People who are citizens of this country shouldn’t have to be subject to their culture being ridiculed in their own home. Telling them to “deal with it” because their lives could be worse in their countries of origin is horribly insensitive. And if you felt that this is truly their home, why even make that argument? It still sends the message that asian immigrants and american born asian citizens are somehow inherently foreign.
If you’re someone who treats people of all racial/religious/whatever else backgrounds with equal amounts of dignity and respect, good for you. But just because you do doesn’t mean we live in a society that treats everyone with equal respect. Failing to acknowledge that and trivializing the experiences of minorities and women in the US only contributes to inequality. No one is blaming you for being born with the privilege of being male, or white, or straight, and no one is blaming you for not being able to relate to people who don’t hold those privileges. But if you simply acknowledge those privileges and try to empathize with people who don’t have them, it makes this entire conversation that much easier.
IOW, “agree with me (us) and the entire conversation will go that much easier.” Sorry, but uh-uh.
Look, these days the only group that is socially permitted to be mocked is white males (straight, too, if you want to add that in there). Like Doug, I’ve had to sit through “workshop” after “workshop” in my profession telling me — yes, telling me — that simply because of the fact that I am white, I am a racist, and the the fact that I am white means any child of color in my classroom will automatically be treated as “less.” You say no one is blaming us for being white? I wish that were true, but it is, in fact, not.
Here’s the deal: Most white folks of my generation do acknowledge the struggles of minority groups, especially blacks, in the US. To not do so makes one a moron, frankly. The problem arises when the subject comes up of how best to rectify the situation. Y’see, as I noted above, the United States is hardly unique in having a majority population and minority populations. But, the fact is, unlike many (most?) other nations, the US actually does a good job as a cohesive society with such a mulitcultural mosaic. You, Stew, believe that everyone should acknowledge people’s color. Doug, Carl, I and many others, do not. At least not as the major factor in any relationship. You place people in groups; we think of people as individuals. Ms. Park apparently likes to think she speaks for all Asians; we would consider hers as but one experience of an Asian individual. This is the conflict that we actually have, and then, as mentioned, how to best right past wrongs.
Maybe I’m not able to clearly articulate what I’m trying to say but here’s a good article that drives some of Park’s points home.
http://mediadiversified.org/2013/08/15/asians-are-the-wedge-notyoufetish/
As you can see, Park doesn’t have an issue with white individuals, rather it’s white dominance in American society. That doesn’t mean she takes issue with every straight white male, but the structures in society that support straight white male privilege at the expense of other groups. There’s no need to feel personally attacked here.
Actually, I said that sometimes there is a level of truth to many feminists’ concerns, but that the they inflate that truth “into a mountain that they can endlessly traverse.” Does racism exist? Sure. It exists all over the world. I’d be willing to bet that Ms. Park has met some racist Koreans in her life — even if she refuses to admit it. The fact of the matter is that there isn’t enough racism in the U.S. today to prevent Ms. Park from accomplishing the vast majority of her dreams and desires if she lives a good honest life.
I’ve worked at quite a few places and had jobs where I was in charge of hiring, firing, awarding and disciplining individuals. Most people simply do not give a crap what color you are or where you grew up. They care that you’re a hard worker with a good attitude, that you bring a positive vibe to the team and that you work well with others. They care that you own up to your shortcomings, strive to improve at your job and show a willingness to go above and beyond the call of duty when the situation calls for it.
The beatings will continue until morale improves! I love that saying… Actually, there is quite a lot of animosity shown my way simply for being a white heterosexual male who believes in the free market. So much so that Ms. Park takes it out in magazine interviews.
Yes, it would make the conversation easier if I agreed with you that my mere existence was oppressing someone else with an invisible suffocating whiteness. Sorry. Not going to happen. Like I said before, your mentality actually plays into the hands of real racists. If we’re so separate from one another and if my whiteness means that I can never understand someone like Ms. Park, then the door is open to claim that the “white, hetero” power structure she wants to “dismantle” (her words) is superior to her vision for the world. If you declare open war on a race of people, battalions will form in resistance. Luckily, I only care about the human spirit. I refuse to allow her to make it about race, but I will defend the pillars of Western Civilization and the ideas that made America an exceptional nation.
Bonus: More racial drivel from Ms. Park:
1. “Together we are undoubtedly the majority of world’s population with many shared oppressions at the hands of Whites. #BlackPowerYellowPeril” — Suey Park
2. “Racism and whiteness go together. Only white people can be racist.” — Suey Park Read more here, where Joslyn Stevens demonstrates just how destructive Ms. Park’s methods are.
Yep. Stew’s right. If only I agreed with Ms. Park that “only” white people can be racist, this whole conversation would be much more pleasant.
It’s pretty telling when you assert things like, “I’d be willing to bet that Ms. Park has met some racist Koreans in her life — even if she refuses to admit it.” — When she has spent SO much time in many public spaces discussing and focusing on racism within the Asian community *specifically*. I happen to disagree with Park on various points but I’d never argue that she minimizes racism within non-White communities, that’s blatantly untrue with a cursory look at her timeline.
So the woman who says “only” white people can be racist talks about “racist” Koreans, which don’t exist in her mind because “only white” people can be racist. Gotcha.
Perhaps “Koran racism” in Ms. Park’s world is defined as “agreeing with white people who don’t agree with Suey Park.”
Speaking of those “workshops” I mentioned, I’ll never forget this one: A so-called “diverty expert” was “informing” us about Hispanic/Latino culture. Much of what he said didn’t make sense to me, as I had lived abroad in Latin America, and my [now ex-]wife is Hispanic. When I pointed out the inanity of some of what he was lecturing us about, at first I greeted with mild laughter, then when I asked the gent if he ever spent time in Latin America, knew any Hispanics, and, lastly, what made him an “expert” on Latino culture, well, then … then I was lectured on how I was “demeaning” this person of color! How dare I resort to Jim Crowian tactics of “belittling” a black person in front of others! Etc. etc. etc.
I never did get an answer to my questions.
This is loosely related, but not along racial lines. When I was in college I had a professor who went on and on about how great Europe was and how it was superior to the United States. In particular he was fascinated by France. During one lecture I raised my hand and asked him where he had been in France, since when I was in the military I made it a point to travel there. He was forced to admit he had never been there in front of the class. He…didn’t like me very much.
I’ve mentioned this in the past, but I once had an English teacher in college who turned the whole thing into a racial grievance class. Half the time she was extolling the virtues of Obama, how “evil” white people were (she was a white liberal, of course. An Arkansas Democrat, if memory serves), how you were “racist” if you weren’t voting for Obama, etc. This was the same one who docked me points for criticizing Obama, back during the 2008 election.
Yep. Those sorts of professors are always difficult to deal with, especially if you don’t have money throw away on a poor grade.
That English prof who never went to France gave me a ‘C+++’ on a paper. I went in and said, “What kind of grade is that? That makes no sense. That’s like saying, ‘I would have given you a ‘B’, but I don’t really like you.'” He told me that if I wanted to rewrite the paper for a chance at a better grade I could. I worked my butt off trying to figure out what he wanted, and when I got the paper back he gave me a ‘B — — —’. I wanted to knock that guy’s jaw off. I didn’t really have any grading issues with most of my other classes during undergrad because I was careful what I said (and some of my most liberal profs gave me high marks), but that one guy was a major tool.
Graduate school? That’s another story. I had a prof tell me I was “too political.” I was a Political Science major, mind you. It wasn’t “political” when he said the U.S. military was only good at “breaking things” around the world, but it was political when I told him that his definition of torture (i.e., anything that causes discomfort or stress) would mean I was tortured during basic training.
Yeah, these far-left academic clowns don’t like opposing views, so what do they do? They try to silence those who disagree with them. Dock their grades (like my professors did) and the such.
This also happened to me in high school. A science teacher flunked me because I gave a negative review of “An Inconvenient Truth.” Same with a teacher who showed everyone an anti-Fox News documentary in her class a year later.
Douglas,
I’m a wounded warrior currently in the executive MIS program at AU, where I also did my undergrad. I happen to have a half Korean daughter and am often concerned with how men will treat her because of the way KPOP portrays Korean women.
I liked what Suey stood for so I read her blog and followed her tweets for a couple weeks. I noticed that her approach could hurt her end goals so I advised her to consult a PR professional. She is very offensive against anyone who isn’t an Asian woman, even people who care, like myself, a white male who in her mind is the epitome of everything she hates. But in reality I’m not much different culturally than her. And after checking out her Instagram you can tell she’s grown up wealthy.
I grew up poor and am permanently disabled from serving my country just so I could go to college. I’ve sacrificed my career for peaceful unification and asian regional stability activism. Yet she led an army to commit character assassination of me on twitter, defaming me publicly, when I was trying to reach out to her and offer friendly advice to help her cause politically.
All she did was prove her own immaturity and underscore her own inflibilities. She doesn’t care who you are and what you’ve been through, if you’re white, then you haven’t been through anything, in her view and can’t relate. She complains about anxiety disorders to to the pressures she’s had to endure… I beg to argue that she doesn’t know what pressure is. I could tell some stories that would make recon marines eyes sweat. But I don’t go having public meltdowns and Charlie Sheen moments over it. I just try to be good to people.
What she did to me represents what she does to all white males. It’s what her movement is about. This isn’t about feminism for Asians. This is about Asians who hate whites. That’s something I can’t support. There’s a lot more that binds people together than what divides us and her incredibly stressful childhood has nothing to do with me anymore than mine has anything to do with her… She’s just am emotionally unstable racist who’s having a public meltdown and blaming the world for her problems, while making false judgements and assumptions about everyone else.
Again, I was on her side but that didn’t matter cuz I’m white. And then her army character assassinated me without knowing or caring to know a thing about me. Is this a movement or is this radical extremism and am emerging army of domestic terrorists?
Maybe neither but my initial point remains the same because I honestly care about her cause. If she wants to make a difference she’s not going to succeed using these tactics. She’s going to make herself famous for being crazy.
Great article.
Mike
First off, thanks for your service Mike. I got my Masters in Political Science at AU. If you ever want to meet up and talk about some of these issues, just drop me a line at dernst@washingtontimes.com.
As you have found out, what Suey “stands” for at a cursory level is very different from what she really stands for when you dig a bit below the surface. She is full of hate and anger. Her methods are not conducive to forming peaceful long-lasting coalitions. I encouraged this type of worldview quite a bit when I got out of the military in 2000, which is what prompted me to look into conservatism in the first place. The Suey Parks of the world do not see each person as a unique individual and spiritual being; they see everyone as some sort of “group” that is being oppressed by evil forces (e.g., white, black, gay, straight, woman, man). It’s incredibly depressing.
I think the ideas that she promotes are incredibly dangerous. They definitely lend themselves to extremism. That’s why it’s so frustrating that the Washington Post and others would write such fawning pieces about her without really doing their homework. She regularly has online meltdowns (by her own admission), and guys like you are not alone. Ms. Park even has fellow minority feminists calling her out on her divisive tactics.
Anyway, again, thanks for taking the time to read and comment. I really appreciate it.
The Suey Parks of the world are inherently yawn-inducing, and so are her detractors. This page does not disappoint. The lamest takeaway in this discussion was the triumphant claim that since the author is married to a Chinese woman, that means he can’t be racist. Which is an absolutely ludicrous argument. I’m not implying you are, but just because you marry out of your race does not mean you can’t be racist against other races, or even of your spouse’s race. I have met plenty of whites with Asian spouses who are absolutely racist against Asians. “Deal with it.”
Who made a “triumphant” claim, stoutboy? Not me — the author of this blog. In fact, I didn’t even mention my marriage in the post. I notice you said “page” instead of “piece” since you had to go to the comments section to find a comment to gripe about that I didn’t even introduce into the discussion.
Regardless, the fact that there are more guys like me in America these days marrying outside our race, means that the Suey Parks of the world are going to have a hard time moving forward. The “all white people are racist” crowd is going to have to make the case to kids who are black, white, asian, hispanic, etc. all rolled into one.
I have met plenty of whites with Asian spouses who are absolutely racist against Asians. “Deal with it.”
Oh, I bet you have. And I’ve met plenty of idiots who have said that they’ve met plenty of whites with Asian spouses who are absolutely racist against Asians.
Consider: What is “plenty?” How many people (whites) o you REALLY know who have Asian spouses? Then, how many of these are “racist?” Then, considering how complete microcephalics like Park and yourself define “racist,” the “fact” that these “plenty” are actually racist begins to crumble apart before our very eyes …
Usually, guys like Stoutboy redefine racism to essentially mean “any critique of a race that I don’t want you to critique or that I disagree with.” Talk about “yawn inducing.”
Indeed. People like “stoutboy” are most depressing people out there. I can’t imagine how they live their lives, eternally seeing everything through a racial lense. And yet, like I said earlier, they have the audacity to call people “racist?” It’s one of the laziest, most intellectually bankrupt things you can do. I don’t understand how these clowns even function.
Your politics and mine don’t mesh at all, but yes indeed, Suey Park is indeed a megalomaniac racist.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, MM. Indeed, Ms. Park will have a hard time forming lasting coalitions if she has people on her own side of the political fence calling her a megalomaniac racist.
We may disagree on a number of issues, but I’m willing to bet big money that if you had to do business with me and business with Ms.Park on a regular basis that you’d soon come to wish you only did so with me.
The central thesis in this blog post seems incredibly flawed. You are basically saying that while racism exists in America it doesn’t effect people enough to negatively effect their life or their prospects in getting on in life. And thus, working of that initial axoim, if anyone is complaining it does then they are just inventing reasons to feel persecuted.
What are you basing that on?
If it is based purely on your own personal experiences then that would seem to be a text book example of the concept of privilege blinding ones experience, assuming something that doesn’t effect you doesn’t effect anyone else.
In some parts of the post you seem to try and base it on a more grounded footing in law. But that again seems a hugely flawed thesis. You seem to believe that the Constitution stops racism negatively effecting anyone’s life, because America is not build around the powerful European/White social classes, but instead build around liberty and freedom.
But a five minute scan of American history would contradict that assertion, America had a civil war less than 100 years after the Declaration of Independence because rich white people were literally owning other people as slaves based on ethnicity. How are the founding documents of America then a protection against the establishment of a white elite and the institutionalisation of racism?
And even if it was impossible in the modern era to racism in the law of the land, how does that stop racism itself from existing in the minds of those in society?
You make a reference to your time as a hiring manager and state that most people don’t care about race, they just want the best people. But again a 5 minute scan of history demonstrates that isn’t the case, minority groups have always found it difficult to find work and it was not uncommon up until the 60s to see signs such as “No Irish” or “No Blacks” on job advertisements.
What justification is there for believing that all this just stopped in the 1980s and has never come back? That despite racism being overtly institutionalised up until a few decades ago racism is no not only not overtly established but simply doesn’t exist to any level that would actually effect any particular group who are not of European decent?
That seems incredible naive position to take? I admire your assertion that what should matter is hard work and personal ability, but your position seems to crumble when you assert that this is the only thing that matters to most people as well and that those who claim to face institutionalised racism are simply making excuses for their own failings because such difficulties don’t really exist to any extent that it would stop them achieving what they want.
Since you’re sort of like a rubber ball bouncing around the inside of a space capsule with all the questions, and I don’t have time on the moment, I’ll share this video of Lizzy Velasquez.
Imagine what the world would look like if instead of whining about the guy who looked at them funny in the grocery story, more people embraced Lizzy Velasquez’s philosophy on life. I’ll gladly respond to your laundry list of questions later, but I think in the mean time this video will suffice.
Wow, that was an amazing video! I’d never heard of Lizzy Velasquez before but she makes good points! And I do think the world would a better place if more people embraced her philosophy instead of obsessing over someone who gave them a funny look at the store or blaming their problems on others.
I’m supposed to believe that invisible “unearned privileges” (that only people of DeLoftie’s political persuasion can see) prevent Suey Park from attaining the vast majority of her hopes and dreams…even though Lizzy Velasquez overcomes obstacles much higher than Ms. Park’s “pressure” to wear Ugg boots? Not buying it. Sorry.
I don’t buy it, either. I think so-called “white privilege” is an outright myth. They would rather blame that boogeyman for their problems instead of admitting to their own problems and stop making excuses for why their lives aren’t going as planned. That’s the kind of immature thinking that permeates the modern left.
It’s just a dumb thing to spend a countless amount of time, money and resources on. As your own past demonstrates, everyone has obstacles to overcome. You are white, but you have Asperger’s syndrome. You had people pick on you, just as Lizzy was picked on. You had the option to live within the anger and hate that sort of situation might warrant, but you wisely chose to do otherwise. You chose to transcend the random morons in your life, and you’re better for it.
There are six billion people in the world, and all of them are trying to get from point ‘A’ to point ‘B’. Anyone who thinks sitting on the corner crying “woe is me!” for years on end is going to get them anywhere is kidding themselves.
So again, to clarify, your position is that the only thing holding people back are themselves and the bad attitude they take.
This, again, seems to be either a case of gross ignorance or cognitive dissonance to hold that position.
If you get a chance to actually respond to my questions I would be very interested to know where you think racism and bigotry went given how overtly prevalent they were just a few years ago.
At what point do you believe racism disappeared from the American culture to such an extent that it no longer has a negative effect on most members or minority groups?
Or do you take the even more ridiculous position that racism didn’t really exist at all, not even in the 1960s and 1970s?
I never said racism and bigotry went anywhere. I hate to burst your bubble. Man has been finding creative ways to treat one another “like wolves” (to quote Ben Franklin) since long before America even existed.
I love how you put words in my mouth and then respond to things I never said. Does racism exist? Sure. Does it exist, in 2014 America, to such an extent that it can prevent anyone from accomplishing the vast majority of their hopes and dreams? Answer: No.
Racism in the United States today is, generally, episodic. A random drunk idiot in the bar calls person x “nigger” during a fight. A random homeless guy makes a crack about Asian people while I’m walking with my wife (true story, although she was my girlfriend at the time). A random idiot tells my ex-girlfriend she shouldn’t be dating white guys (true story). Some idiots call Suey Park a racist name on Twitter (Who knew that when you get millions of people together some of them will say really mean things).
In general, these random instances of racism will not prevent someone from becoming a lawyer if they really want to become a lawyer. It won’t prevent someone from becoming a teacher if they want to be a teacher. It won’t stop someone from having a dog, two kids and a picket fence if they work hard, save their money, don’t do drugs or have kids out of wedlock.
Here’s an idea: Why don’t you just type “naive” and “ridiculous” and “ignorance” over and over again until your fingers get tired. Then, when it’s all out of your system (you have a pretty deep well of condescension going on, so it might take awhile), maybe we can have a productive conversation.
Right. I could’ve spent time letting anger build up and do something stupid, but I didn’t. I moved on pretty quickly after switching schools in ninth grade. I chose to move on and not let the past continually haunt me. I refused to make excuses. The thought of exacting revenge on my tormentors never once occurred to me. At all. Everyone has obstacles to overcome, like you said, and I certainly have come a long way since middle school.
Every now and then, I’ll have someone look at me funny, as if they suspect I’m “slow,” but I don’t pay them much attention. It wouldn’t be worth my time.
That’s what I meant by my comment about how things have improved since the 1960s. Racism still exists, but it doesn’t prevent people from achieving their dreams anymore. There are no laws banning non-white people from establishments such as restaurants. There are no longer anti-miscegenation laws that prevent people of different races from getting married. Things have improved, but some like to cling onto the past because they need something to get angry about it.
Random, episodic instances of racism are just that. Does a random white dude making racist slurs toward someone endemic of a larger problem in today’s America? No. He’s just an ignorant buffoon, and just one man. Do racist trolls who criticize a Cheerio’s commercial because of it featuring a bi-racial family mean that everyone online is a racist? No, not unless you’re an MSNBC watcher. The real answer is that there are people out there with no lives, who like to troll and make inflammatory comments.
You don’t get to say what the thesis of this blog post is and then react to it as if you’re actually correct. Sorry. Nice try, though. I’ve already answered this question, but I’ll do so again. Racism exists. It’s generally episodic in 2014 America. If someone wants to be a lawyer, those random incidents of racism will not prevent them from becoming a lawyer. If someone wants to become a teacher badly enough, they’ll be a teacher. If they want to be a cop, there is nothing stopping them from becoming a cop. Bad public policy hurts minorities more than the occasional run-in with racists. An out-of-wedlock birthrate hovering around 70 percent (an outgrowth of bad public policy) hurts minorities more than the occasional run-in with racists. Drug use (soon to be legal in a state near you) hurts minorities more than a racist waitress or cab driver. I can go on if need be.
Again, you came to your own (incorrect) conclusion and then want me to defend it? No thanks.
Instead of saying what I “seem” to be saying, why don’t you pull directly from the text and ask me about that? That “seems” to be what someone who really wants to know what I’m getting at would do.
The American ideals laid out in the Declaration of Independence and codified into law by the Constitution guaranteed that the nation — if it took the documents seriously, which it did — would have to deal with slavery. And it did. It took a bloody civil war, as you point out, but in the end it was a win for the principles enshrined in our most important founding documents.
I find it interesting how guys like you act as if America invented slavery, when in reality it was Western Civilization that brought slavery (for all intents and purposes) to an end. As we know, there are certain parts of the (non-white) world where slavery is still an issue.
You’re making no sense. I never said that racism doesn’t exist. There are white racists, blacks racist, hispanic racists, asian racists, etc. There will always be people who find excuses to hate because it’s easier to blame “white” people or “black” people or whomever for our problems than to take responsibility for our personal failings.
You’re intellectually running around like a squirrel, burying one nut and then digging it up and then burying it again. You act as if there has been zero progress in regards to race relations in hundreds of years. It’s bizarre. Yes, America is so racist that many of the highest paid athletes, entertainers, businessmen and politicians are black. America is so racist it put a black guy in the White House for eight years, it’s had a black female Secretary of State, it’s got a black Attorney General, etc. That’s some seriously subversive racism…
Again: In one long diatribe you tell me (incorrectly) what I said, and then say I’m naive for believing it. Bravo.
@Carl white privilege is a myth? Ok, given that it clearly wasn’t a myth just a few decades ago, when a white person could eat any where they wanted but a black person couldn’t, can you answer the same question, when did racism and white privilege evaporate into the ether?
I never said that, of course, but nice try at twisting my words. Nowadays it’s just an excuse some people use. Of course racism still exists, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it was fifty, sixty or more years ago. I think there has been a ton of progress since then. We have a black President. We have female leaders. Things have improved significantly for women and minorities.
You said
I responded “white privilege is a myth?”
Where is the mis-representation?
Ok, and since you think things have improved so much that white privilege is now a myth, the same question remains, when to your assessment did racism diminish so much in significance than white privilege is no longer a thing and that people of colour no longer face any significant impedance due to racism?
Both yourself and Doug seem to think that institutionalised racism has essentially stopped having any significant negative effect for PoC in American society.
Given that only a few decades ago institutionalised racism was so serious in America that it was no uncommon for whole industries to segregate workers and customers, when did this magical transformation take place?
I’m asking because I’m curious as to what time frame you think such a significant shift in culture can take place in. Do you think in a decade America can go from a deeply racist country with wide spread institutionalised racism to a country where racism, while still present, is so diminished it is no longer a factor in the lives of most Americans. Can this happen in two decades? Three decades?
What you are talking about is a massive systemic shift in culture, but you talk about it as if it happened quickly and easily. A few years of civil rights marches, some new laws, done racism is no longer an issue to be concerned about.
Or is it more than you simply haven’t really considered what you are actually claiming and how it would practically come about?
I think it’s a myth, yes. What I was responding to, was your hypothetical where you implied that I implied that racism no longer exists. I never said that; I said that it does exist, but instances are largely episodic in nature. It no longer is as widespread in America as it once was. To suggest that we’re still stuck in the 1950s in regards to race relations (your comment about America being “deeply racist” with widespread “institutional racism” seem to imply that’s what you think) to suspend reality.
We’re so “racist” that many of our top athletes are African-American. We’re so “racist” that we have a black President. We’re so “racist” that some states have non-white governors. To me, that is not a sign of being “deeply racist.” That’s a sign of progress. But go ahead, keep living as though it’s 1955. It gives you something to get riled up about.
Here is a good article debunking the notion of white privilege, written by a black conservative, Selwyn duke.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/the_myth_of_white_privilege.html
Like both yourself and Doug, the author of that article doesn’t seem to even understand what “white privilege” is, so it is far off from demonstrating that it is a myth.
White is the path of least resistance in American society as far as race is concerned. Or to put it another way all the problems you face due to have aspergers would have been simplied added upon if you had been black with aspergers.
The privilege being white has is that your ethnicity is simply the default, consider the norm, considered the correct aspect. It becomes simply a non-issue. You can tell it is a non-issue by the laughable examples of how white people are put upon for being white. Oh nos, you can’t say the n-word without being criticised. That is clearly not on the same level as the discrimination that black, Asian, hispanic etc people face in America, though interestingly enough it doesn’t stop many white Americans feeling greatly put upon (just imagine what all the PoC feel if you get annoyed about not being able to shout ‘ni**er’ when ever you want to).
The privilege being white has is that your ethnicity is simply the default, consider the norm, considered the correct aspect.
When there is a majority culture in a nation, what else would you expect? Again, you live in la-la land if you actually expect that America is unique in this regard, let alone worse than other nations.
First off, it’s “Asperger’s,” not aspergers. And second, I highly doubt my experiences would’ve any different if I were black. Don’t make assumptions about me. You’re such an “expert” that you know more about “white privilege” than Doug, me, and Selwyn Duke (who is black, by the way) combined? No. You just chose to ignore the points Duke made, because, frankly, they contradict your worldview.
And Hube’s correct. You must be living in la-la land if you think America is unique in that regard or that it’s the only place where racism exists.
DeLoftie, can you give me the “Top 10” list of racist obstacles that prevent any minority in the U.S. from attaining the vast majority of their hopes and dreams?
Great. Except I didn’t claim you said racism doesn’t exist. I claimed you said that racism has diminished so much in American society that people of colour no longer face institutionalised discrimination and that racism plays no serious role in holding them back.
Is that an inaccurate summary of your position? If it is then my question remains, given that all of that wasn’t true in the 1960s and 1970s, at what point (to the closest decade) do you think racism diminished so much that it is now so irrelevant to the achievements PoC in America.
Did institutionalised racism disappear for black people in the 80s? The 90s? The 00s? When Barrack Obama was elected?
But, again, your argument is that America was not founded on principles of racism, but instead on the ideals in the founding documents. But even if those founding documents forced the nation to deal with slavery (which is an odd idea given that the civil war happened after decades of life in America with the constitution and slavery existing hand in hand, and required a civil war to enforce ), that fact itself demonstrates that America had deeply embedded concept of institutionalised racism as a founding tenant of the country. You can’t get more institutionalised in terms of racism than legalised slavery based on ethnicity.
Who said anything about America inventing slavery? I was responding to your nonsensical idea that America was not founded on racist ideas and the concept of white supremacy. It is hardly surprising that it was because, as you point out, that was a prevailing concept at the time through out most of the world. It would be odd if it hadn’t been. Even the notion of a black man being worth less than a white man was in the founding documents, primarily to put quiet to the southern colonies who didn’t want the freedoms mentioned in the constitution to threaten their supremacy. White supremacy was there right from the start.
There has been lots of progress made. But lots of progress is not the same as saying that racism has diminished to such as extent that it is no longer institutionalise and no longer has a greater negative effect on PoC than they would experience being just an average white person.
You do know that Obama has received more threats on his life than any other American president in history, 4 times as many threats as Bush, with most of the threats being racist in nature.
So again bravo America for getting to the point where a black citizen can actually get elected to president. But again ridiculously naive to this that some how means racism is no longer a significant issue for most black or Asian Americans.
Remember you are the one claiming that Americans who complain about institutionalised racism are whining and have no justifiable reason to say that they are suffering any more than the average white person dealing with average assholes. You are claiming that racism is no longer a significant issue holding back people of colour in America.
When challenged on that you seem to have nothing to back that up with other than to say it is your view point and to point to black people who have done well, as if them doing well means they didn’t face greater struggle because of racism or because them doing well means there aren’t lots who didn’t because of racism.
You do know that Obama has received more threats on his life than any other American president in history, 4 times as many threats as Bush, with most of the threats being racist in nature.
False. This was debunked long ago. Obama has not faced significantly more threats than previous presidents:
Remember you are the one claiming that Americans who complain about institutionalised racism are whining and have no justifiable reason to say that they are suffering any more than the average white person dealing with average assholes.
And you’re the one utilizing phony information to bolster your argument that America remains incorrigibly racist. When you make use of such falsehoods, why should we continue to listen?
The fact is, any nation can make use of the “[insert majority culture] privilege” complaint. Every nation has a majority culture. I tend to doubt that the US’s majority “privilege” is worse than any other country’s; in fact, considering how many people of color clamor to come to our country, it seems to be significantly less. In addition, it was the West, after all (the US included) which fought to abolish slavery on moral grounds.
Lastly, it is laughable that someone like Park, an Asian, is the one whining about such “white privilege.” In virtually every demographic statistic, Asians rank right up there with Caucasians. Which says to me that she had some good indoctrination while in college by like-minded “progressives” who also have too much time on their hands.
“The fact is, any nation can make use of the “[insert majority culture] privilege” complaint. Every nation has a majority culture. I tend to doubt that the US’s majority “privilege” is worse than any other country’s; in fact, considering how many people of color clamor to come to our country, it seems to be significantly less. In addition, it was the West, after all (the US included) which fought to abolish slavery on moral grounds. ”
Good points, Hube. That’s a question I always ask progressives. If America is so “racist,” why do so many people of color come here from other countries? Because there are opportunities for them here, and they know it, opportunities they wouldn’t have in their old countries. An opportunity to be someone, to make something of themselves. Could it also be because the West led the fight to abolish slavery on moral grounds?
“Lastly, it is laughable that someone like Park, an Asian, is the one whining about such “white privilege.” In virtually every demographic statistic, Asians rank right up there with Caucasians. Which says to me that she had some good indoctrination while in college by like-minded “progressives” who also have too much time on their hands.”
Yeah, I think Park took her deconstructionist professors way too seriously. Statistics show that Asians regularly do well in school.
But when did facts ever matter to progressives?
That wasn’t “debunked”. Sullivan said it wasn’t the figures he was aware of, which isn’t surprising since the figures came from leaked internal documents and Sullivan was attempting to justify the cost cutting at the SS. He claimed that as far as he was concerned the threats were not any greater and the Secret Service didn’t need additional men. And, strangely, no one at the hearing where he was testifying seemed to believe him. Go figure.
Yeah maybe research a little bit more before copying and pasting the first Google hit you get.
Yes … and?
Every nation has a majority culture. And in every nation those who don’t belong to that majority culture face greater issues than those in the majority culture in the form of established institutionalised bigotry. Whether you are black man in America, a Muslim in Serbia, a Catholic in Northern Ireland etc
The odd thing is that Doug and Carl seem to think America is the first culture in the history of the Earth to over come this to the extent that it has make this irrelevant to the lives of minority groups. Bravo America, high five
Of course it isn’t true. Institutionalised racism is not gone from American any more than it is gone from the rest of the world.
So why pretend otherwise? What does that get you?
As opposed to making a completely unsubstantiated statement like you did? At least I backed up my statement; you … well, you did what you did. Which was make a whopper.
It gets us, and everyone else, lives. They live their lives instead of seeking out each and every perceived slight to complain about, much like Ms. Park.
“Bad” is a relative term, of course. Why didn’t they flock to other countries?
Right. As opposed to posting “out of air” “facts” like Obama being threatened more than any other president?
Cite, please. Y’know, so we don’t have to take your word for it like last time. Also, which ethnicity(ies) are the primary bullies of Asian students, proportionately?
Now, it seems we’ve (Doug, Carl, you and I) have reached a stalemate on the concept of “white privilege” and its effects. The question is, what do we do about it? You’ve no argument that the US is hardly unique in its majority culture having a degree of “privilege;” where we disagree is what to do about it, if anything. So, I ask you straight up DeLoftie: What is your solution to dismantling “white privilege?” How would it be “enforced?”
This is going to be good. Even his silence would be making a statement…
I’m claiming that whiners who complain about “pressure” to “wear Ugg boots” are…whiners. I’m calling out people like Suey “only white people can be racist” Park for making such laughable assertions. I’m calling out the mindset of guys like you, who spend hours upon hours upon hours fretting about the random incidents of racism when, if they would have just spent that time focusing on their long-term goals … they would have attained them already. When all you do is sit around and complain about the guy at the gym who looked at your funny on the treadmill, or the job you didn’t get because “maybe, possibly, I’m pretty sure I can’t prove it but I think that guy was racist,” — it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
What time is it in Dublin, Ireland? Are you an American living in Ireland, or are Irish people just really concerned about American minorities?
Yes yes they are all “whiners” those people who just can’t be as successful as you. Can’t possibly be anything about the culture they find themselves in, has to be their own personal failings and inability to be as awesome as you are. Bravo, have a cookie for being so successful.
I’ve pointed out the flaws in your thinking about the irrelevance of racism for PoC in America, that it is totally impractical that racism would diminish from American society as quickly as you claim it has and to such low levels.
But you don’t seem interested in discussing that. You don’t really seem actually thought through a rational argument for why you think this is the case. And your continuous use of the term “whiners” to describe those who claim racism is negatively effecting them would seem to suggest rational conclusions is not really what is going on here.
Good luck to you, continue being awesome and successful, if America loses its successful white people where would it be then!
I really hope you get over your self-loathing, DeLoftie. It’s not healthy.
Go troll some other blog with your insane, repetitive Howard Zinn-like talking points.
Do you guys pay attention to ANY HISTORY AT ALL?
Immigrants were flocking to American when the country had slavery. You can’t get any more institutionalised than slavery. When the country had racism enshrined in its laws.
Irish people flocked to America when it was legal to not hire someone simply because they were Irish. Asian people flocked to American when it was common that an Asian railroad worker would be murdered and no questions asked by the authorities.
When has immigration into American ever demonstrated that racism in American is not that bad?
I mean seriously, can you bother to think for 5 seconds about the arguments you are making?
Except for the negative ones. For example Asian Americans are the most bullied ethnicity in American schools, nearly twice as likely to be bullied and harassed than European Americans. The figure is even higher online.
What? No. No. NO. This can’t be. Nooooooooooo!
Yes, bullies do like easy targets. Asian kids are typically…really nice and respectful. I’m sure that when bullies run the numbers they know that an asian kid is less likely to haul off and smack them. But hey, the asian kid probably also knows deep down where the bully will end up ten years down the road.
“That wasn’t “debunked”. Sullivan said it wasn’t the figures he was aware of, which isn’t surprising since the figures came from leaked internal documents and Sullivan was attempting to justify the cost cutting at the SS. He claimed that as far as he was concerned the threats were not any greater and the Secret Service didn’t need additional men. And, strangely, no one at the hearing where he was testifying seemed to believe him. Go figure. ”
Yeah, it was debunked. Hube provided that evidence, but you ignored it because it didn’t fit in with your thesis about Obama gets the most threats of any President. Fact is, any one in that position gets death threats. That’s one of the things that comes with being a public figure, but especially leader of major countries.
“Yeah maybe research a little bit more before copying and pasting the first Google hit you get.”
All you’ve done is regurgitate “America is racist” memes, like a broken record.
“The odd thing is that Doug and Carl seem to think America is the first culture in the history of the Earth to over come this to the extent that it has make this irrelevant to the lives of minority groups. Bravo America, high five.”
What we said is that America has come a long way since the Civil Rights era before. As I said earlier in the thread, the mere fact that we have women and minorities in positions of power (and not just in government) is a sign of progress to me. Your sarcastic zinger at the end does you no favors.
“Of course it isn’t true. Institutionalised racism is not gone from American any more than it is gone from the rest of the world.”
It no longer exists to the point where it blocks anyone, regardless of what gender or ethnicity they may be, from achieving their dreams. The only thing that holds anyone back is themselves.
Which is of course total nonsense. You know it is total nonsense because you keep not answering my question as to when this actually happened. It is ridiculous to say that racism no longer exists to the point where it blocks anyone when only a few decades ago you had wide spread institutionalised racism in laws throughout the country.
Doug seems totally uninterested in actually dealing with that point. You don’t seem any more interested.
So again what is the point? If you aren’t going to actually discuss the grounding of what you assert?
Sorry, troll, I’m not going to play your games. I’ve indulged you way too much already. If you can’t understand what I or Doug or Hube are saying, that’s your problem. I can’t help you. I don’t really see how someone who isn’t even from this country can claim to be a bigger expert on it than people who actually live here. If you lived here, you’d see what I’ve been saying.
What actually IS nonsense is that you use Howard Zinn-like talking points to boost your arguments that America is “racist.”
A 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate doesn’t concern DeLoftie. Nope. Bringing millions of kids into homes with single moms has nothing to do with economic mobility. Move along. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Exactly right. Keep moving on. Scream about “white privilege” and the equally-as-fictitious “War on Women” instead of doing something to address the out-of-wedlock birth rate.
Where is the Irish Barack Obama? Where is the Irish Jay-Z? Where is the Irish Michael Jordan? Where is the Irish Condoleezza Rice? Where is the Irish Russell Simmons? Where is the Irish Oprah Winfrey?
Perhaps DeLoftie is projecting his own country’s problems onto America.
There’s a good chance of that.
So much for DeLoftie’s answer to the challenge. Hardly a surprise, though,
It’s quite telling. He doesn’t have an argument, other than canned Howard Zinn-like talking points. I still find it amusing how someone from Ireland “knows” America better than Americans do
Wow, so irony isn’t a concept you guys get then.
Lest I be accused of running away from the “issues” –
Firstly
You guys refused to answer my question (you know, the one is that is actually relevant to this discussion). You refused to answer it because it requires you to match your abstract notions of how racism is no longer relevant to the actual realities of how that could have possibly come about in such a short period of time (hint, it couldn’t have and unsurprisingly hasn’t). Once you are forced to explain how your notions supposably map to reality it is far harder to ignore the cognitive dissonance taking place. But then you know that, you don’t want to get tied down to actual concrete statements because then you risk exposing how deranged these notions are. After you refused to answer the question I left the discussion, after all what is the point if you make it just one sided?
Secondly
Some where along the lines one of you got the notion that this is about saying the rest of the world is better than America. I’m not sure if you actually believe that is the point being made, or if this was just another attempt to deflect from actually facing the real issue. I assume the Ireland-has-no-black-president!!! was a rather pathetic attempt to resurrect this line of questioning in order to again deflect from the fact that you haven’t answered my questions. Ireland certainly does not have a black President, or many black members of parliament. But then who said Ireland has over come racism to the point that it no longer negatively effects the fortunes of black Irish men and women?
You guys remind me of the kid who breaks the window in school and when called up to the teacher starts to panic and throwing out all the things his classmates have done. The kid knows he did it, he knows the teacher knows he did it and the tactic here is to just try and deflect the teachers attention hoping that that attention will be moved to one of the other kids. Cute when a 5 year old does it, bit less when it is grown men.
Thirdly
Low marriage rates? Out of wed-lock kids? Really …. ? At least your questions about Ireland were some what related to race and racism. You are a question away from “Won’t someone think of the CHILDREN!”
You guys know you are spouting bull. You know this because you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to discredit the person pointing this out rather than defending your own position during critical analysis.
The question I guess is can you self-reflect long enough to query why you hold these positions in the first place when you do this. It clearly isn’t because you one day rationally weighted up all the evidence and decided this was the most accurate reflection of reality. When someone says they think the theory of electromagnetism is wrong the scientist explains the theory and shows the evidence, they don’t start saying Yeah-well-your-theory-aint-so-hot-either-and-what-about-those-low-birth-rates, do they?
Peace be upon you.
Never has someone said so much … but said so little. Great comeback, Dublin. Again, no answers…just complaints.
Breaking school windows? You’re the one who only knows how to throw rocks. Trying building something one day. You’ll be glad you did.
And he still won’t answer the question! Doug is spot-on: Never has someone said so much … but said so little.
Go back to being a perpetual victim, Dublin. try to enjoy your pathetic existence finding misery in everything.
I’ve answered all the questions put to me. Some of the answers I’ve had to repeat, such as again explaining that I never said the rest of the world was post-racial.
You would know that Hube if you actually bothered to read my responses. Or you did and you are now lying.
Either way what is the point, you either aren’t reading my responses or you are so annoyed that I’m challenging you that you prefer to ignore the topic and just be silly.
I would point out Doug and Carl still haven’t answered my question that I asked ages ago, which makes Doug’s “no answers…just complaints” statement even more ironic considering I’m the only one actually answering questions and Doug is complaining the loudest rather than supporting his world view with evidence.
Again you guys surely must realise you are doing this?! You must know. You can’t be that detached from reality. So is it just face saving now?
See if you can answer that one Hube …
Actually, you didn’t. You’re too busy still thinking you’re “scoring points” by continually making snide insinuations and believing in your supposed inherent superiority. Here’s what you’ve ignored, speaking of not reading posts:
We’re so full of anticipation on this our genitals have sucked back up into our body cavities.
Actually I did. You just didn’t read it. I already explained I never claimed that the rest of the world is better than America, nor have we cured racism.
To repeat (for the 3rd time), Ireland has not cured racism, I don’t have a solution to dismantling “white privilege” in Ireland, let alone America.
I do know that simply sticking ones head in the sand and pretending it doesn’t exist any more is probably not the solution. Nice slip in of “enforced” by the way, I genuinely did miss that the first time I read through your post. Because sure all us liberals are really Nazi thought police who want to enforce you to be better people … sigh …
Anyone want to answer my questions…..? No…..?
Well, the thing is, none of us here “pretended” racism (and with me even white privilege … I won’t speak for the others here) doesn’t exist; again, the debate was the extent to which it [currently] exists and, which you said supposedly for the 3rd time, you offer no solutions for. You’ve chided us in this thread for our belief in said “extent;” however, Park’s arguably much more radical view of the matter (especially since she’s Asian, for factors which I noted above) seems to be just jolly good to you.
Unfortunately that is the case with many who believe like you. At least you’re honest enough to admit you have no solution (which could be pure bullshit, of course; you may simply be loath to admit that you favor “solutions” typical of “progressives” … we’ll never know), but there are innumerable “progressives” who favor “Nazi thought police” measures “to enforce us to be better people.” They’re all the rage on American college campuses and lower ed, didn’t you know? I have myriad examples I’d be happy to share with you, including that of my alma mater (which my daughter is currently attending). Not to mention the American presidential administration which most recently was caught attempting to insert Soviet-style “monitors” in every TV, radio and newspaper newsroom to make sure the “right” things were being covered and discussed.
So, again, it seems we’re right back at the point when I asked my [supposedly answered for the 3rd time already] question: What do we do about it, and now, between us here, where do we go from here?
At one time in America the Irish were treated with signs that read “Irish Need Not Apply.” Did they complain about “British Immigrant Privilege”? No. They overcame adversity…just like countless other races and cultures have throughout history. Whereas we offer hope that people can overcome the obstacles that lay before them, Dublin readily acknowledges he has nothing for them. In his world, people sit around and stew at the hand they’ve been dealt. They eye people suspiciously. They walk around paranoid about the racism that may or may not befall them. It’s sad. It’s depressing. And, like I said, it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy of anger, resentment and failure.
Sorry, troll, I’m not going to play your ridiculous little semantic games today. I have little desire to debate with someone who acts like he’s inherently superior to everyone else and thinks he knows about America than actual Americans do.And you’re “better” than me? Hardly. Like Hube said, you’ve done nothing but make snide insinuations and acting superior to everyone else. I don’t need racially obsessed trolls to tell me how I should view race relations. I view people as people.
Like I said, if you can’t figure out what Doug and I and Hube are saying, that’s your problem. Go to some other site that will indulge your trollish impulses.
And lest I forget, the only one spouting bull here is you, DeLoftie. You’ve added not a thing to the conversation other than condescension and acting like you’re so much better than everyone else. I just feel sorry for people like you, who are so obsessed with racism. You’re depressing.
Yep. That’s pretty much it! 🙂
Sadly, a lot of progressives are very much like Nazi thought police, that would want to control every aspect of our lives if given the chance. From the socialistic propaganda disseminated by college professors in their classrooms to the FCC trying to insert “monitors” in newsrooms so that the “right” things are getting reported, people with Dublin’s progressive beliefs have a lot more in common with Orwellian thought police than any conservative. “Enforcing you to become better people” is translated to “I want to control every aspect of your life.” Because they think they “know” what’s “better” than us. Sorry, Dublin, you don’t know what’s best for me. I know what’s best for me.
Remember the University of Delaware Thought Control program? That made the national news back in 2007.
Wow, ok … “Nazi thought police” … you guys aren’t whining by any chance are you … maybe you should just put your head down Carl and get on with working your job … that seemed to work wonders for the Irish according to Doug …
Again how can you guys not see this?
No idea where we go from here Hube, I normally leave a discussion when the Nazi references start being thrown about, particularly when people have flat out refused to answer my question… sorry “play my game” …
I would suspect you guys aren’t really interested in going any where, are you?
And on what basis do you make that claim? You’re the one who has no solutions to the problem of “white privilege.” All you’ve done here is back Ms. Park and criticize those who dare to question the degree to which this “privilege” is indeed a problem.
So, if you want to “go anywhere,” come up with a solution to this incredible problem Eurocentric countries have.
What, you mean other than Doug and Carl saying they don’t even think institutionalized racism any more?
If you are genuinely interested in combating institutionalized racism a first step would be to stop denying it exists and to stop dismissing PoC who claim it does as simply “whiners” because you don’t experience what they experience.
Any takers … ?
“Any more?” It’s a matter of degree, sir. You and Ms. Park believe it is still vastly prevalent, so much so that people like Ms. Park seemingly cannot even function as a result. It is people like Park who are indeed whiners, based on the hilariously ridiculous depth by which she has to go to show how incorrigibly racist contemporary America is.
She’s so desperate to make her case that she even asserts that “only” white people can be racist. Does DeLoftie agree with that one?
I’m talking about institutionalized racism. Doug and Carl believe racism has reduced in society to such a degree that it is no longer institutionalize and that PoC no longer face systematic racism.
Still waiting…
Doug I will compile a list of what I (a middle class white man from Ireland) think the “Top 10” racist obstacles in the USA are (not Top 11? Or Top 9), if you answer my original question about when institutionalized racism diminished to such a degree that it is no longer of an significant hindrance to PoC in America.
Deal?
Why do I have to give you some weird date, as if race relations in the U.S. can be given a historical marker like the moon landing? The fact of the matter is that in 2014 America — Today, February 24, 2014 — there is not a degree of racism that can prevent anyone from attaining the vast majority of their hopes and dreams. For the sake of argument, I’ll even say that it’s been that way since the mid-90s. You disagree. So, moving forward, the onus is on you to prove otherwise. I’ll be looking forward to that Top 10 List.
Hang on, I asked justification for that date as well. Why did you pick the mid-90s, what made you pick that time period?
Haha! You’ll do anything to not give me the Top Ten list. This is classic.
Like I said, it was for the sake of argument, but I’ll give you an answer anyway so you can find another excuse to avoid writing that list. Growing up, my family was great about driving us to many states. I grew up in the midwest, but traveled quite a bit — by car because we weren’t rich. My experience attending a diverse public school (I think Money Magazine once called my high school the most diverse in the nation at the time) growing up with kids who had posters of black entertainers and athletes on their walls, working with minorities at my first jobs, etc. all conveyed to me that the vast majority of people simply do not give a crap what color you are. They respond to a good attitude, a solid work ethic, team-players and reliability.
I’ll be looking forward to that list.
Here’s the requirement in case you forgot:
Regarding Doug’s question about whether I agree with Park.
I’m going to assume you are unaware/ignorant of any of the discussion around racism in the 70s and 80s that Park is referring to when she says black people are not racist.
A little history lesson then to put in context. After the civil rights movement in America people studying racism found it difficult to reconcile the idea that a white person in power making a bigoted discriminatory decision against a black person was the same thing as the black person growing up in such a discriminatory society doing the same to a white person.
For example, if you take “racism” simply on its historical usage devoid of any context, a white person refusing to have anything to do with a black person based on the idea that the black person is a dirty n* is technically the same thing as a black person having nothing to do with a white person because they live in a society where a significant amount of white people they meet calls them a dirty n*.
It was thus seem as both ridiculously unfair and rather inaccurate to classify those to things as the same thing, in the same way it would seem unfair and inaccurate to say a woman who has been the victim of multiple rapes is being “sexist” by asking not to be examined by a male doctor, even if that male doctor had nothing to do with the rapes and was not planning on raping her.
Technically it is sexist given the most basic usage of the word, she is making a decision based purely on the sex of the doctor. But would you call that woman a “sexist” for doing so?
Of course if you don’t believe in the concept of white privilege this will mean nothing to you. I personally don’t think people should use the term the way Park is using it, not because I disagree with the above, but because most people are so ignorant of the above that it just ends up in mass confusion and gives people a stick to beat progressives with when they ignorantly (or often willfully) misunderstand the statement as meaning that progressives think black people are some how magically immune to using stereotypes.
Yes, most of the time when I deal with guys like you they assume anyone who disagrees wit them is “ignorant.”
Oh, look! You think most people are ignorant. No, they’re not ignorant. They know quite well that people like you keep redefining racism over and over and over again in order to find ways to beat yourself with a self-loathing stick. Hube and I once got into a hilarious online debate via Twitter with a woman who essentially said that everyone has their own definition of race, so one-on-one meetings were necessary to have productive discussions on race.
Sorry DeLoftie, but it isn’t white people who prevent random minorities from gaining the skills they need to succeed. More often than not in today’s world, it is black “leaders” who stand in the way of black people.
Portland African American Leadership Forum: We love vacant lots more than jobs, Trader Joe’s
Since you’re obsessed with race, I’ll let a black man explain it to you:
But Doug, I thought PoC don’t face institutionalized racism stopping them from gaining the skills to succeed? I thought that stopped in the 1990s?
They just don’t face it from white people … ?
Lol, you are so full of it Doug. You can’t even decide what isn’t happening any more.
You’re lost, Dublin. Just because someone has an obstacle in their path, it doesn’t mean they’re incapable of overcoming it. I’ve said that numerous times now. Over the course of a lifetime, anyone who really wants to attain “x” number of hopes and dreams in America will have most of them realized. They will live, for all intents and purposes, a “good” life.
Yes Doug clearly I will do anything to not give you a meaningless Top 10 list …
By the way, you do know that “for the sake of argument” means “I made this up” .. right?
Leaving that aside, your argument for when racism stopped being a significant issue for PoC is when in high school you noticed that most people aren’t racist.
Ok … so why was racism a significant issue for people in the 1980s? You wouldn’t be just making up an answer would you … what does that tell you about your argument.
Oh and since you have been so good …
in no particular order (who am I say one is worse than other)
1 – Attemps to disenfrancise black voters through things like voter registration laws.
2 – Laws, such as the Florida Stand Your Ground laws, which are based on perception of black crime which have been shown to greatly faviour white defendants and unfair to black defendants (beyond just the Zimmerman verdict by the way before you bring that up).
3 – Trivilisation/erasure of PoC culture through cultural appropriation of whites, culture as costume.
4- Racial profiling by police authorities that over whelmingly targets PoC.
5 – Racial disparity in social benefits and welfare that reduce benefits for PoC while but not white people (after all white people down on their luck just need a helping hand to get back, black people are lazy and bleeding the system dry, something must be done!)
Lets see how you do with those 5 before I waste more time compiling the rest of the list … I’m guessing you have completely opened your eyes
Actually, my context was quite clear: It meant I’ll give you a really simple answer — one that you will no doubt use to mock me — but that will require you to put forth that list. “For the sake of argument” means in this context that I’m giving you “x” so that we can continue/forward the discussion, not “I made this up.”
Slow clap for lofty. He did exactly what I thought he’d do. You wanted some sort of dissertation on racism that you could use to go off on a tangent and avoid answering the question. I gave you a super-simplified answer (but one that would require you to give the list or continue dodging), and then you act as if my entire worldview is based on that. Can you get any more trollish?
So you are admitting your answer was disingenuous? You actually don’t have a clue when or how institutionalized racism became an irrelevant factor in the lives of PoC in America.
I hardly see the need to mock you for that …
As much as I’d love to look at your male pattern baldness and beard all day, I actually have a life. I have some of those “hopes and dreams” to work on. I’m not sure if you’d find them modest or not. I don’t really care, either. See, when I have a day off work I actually use that time productively. It’s worked out really well for me over the years. Who knew? Cheers.
The question was:
The answers were: DeLoftie, can you give me the “Top 10″ list of racist obstacles that prevent any minority in the U.S. from attaining the vast majority of their hopes and dreams?
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You’re 0-5 on compiling a list of things that would prevent anyone from attaining the vast majority of their hopes and dream in America today — even if, for the “sake of argument” I agreed with your definition of “trivializing” a culture. Ouch.
Now that you’ve actually be forced to provide specifics, your house of cards crumbles.
Sorry, I’m wrong about what exactly?
Being in prison based on a bullshit law doesn’t prevent anyone from attaining the vast majority of their hopes and dreams?
I’m assuming you have very modest hopes and dreams … ?
Oh, we’re back to being vague again. “Bullshit laws” are holding back minorities. Gotcha. I like the little personal dig at the end there. Actually, my life is unfolding quite nicely. So because I don’t want to be a politicians or a movie star I have “modest” hopes and dreams, I take it? That seems like a weird road to go down. Maybe later you can give the DeLoftie Litmus Test for Awesomely Awesome Hopes and Dreams.
No, because you think a black man being thrown in prison shouldn’t effect his hopes and dreams.
Which might be true if by “hopes and dreams” you mean very little.
Sure what is an incarceration really, other than a minor set back. I’m sure you have faced much more difficult challenges and you don’t complain. Except about Suey Park of course, the real enemy …
And apparently neither does being allowed to vote.
What would in your mind Doug hinder PoC from attaining the American dream? Jim Crow? Slavery?
I’m beginning to see why you think institutionalized racism no longer exists. Sure Mr Black man you are in prison based on a bullshit law that none of your friends and family can actually vote to over turn, but stop whining! Doug here is a self made man, if he can do it, facing none of the challenges you do, you can to!
“Bullshit laws.” Nooooooo!
I suggest you look at black turnout rates for the past two elections in the U.S. It turns out that black people are smart enough to get a valid ID, contrary to Democratic politicians think. Is there a secret cabal of white people who are pulling the strings on the city council of Detroit? The last time I checked, Detroit was run and operated by liberals (and plenty of minorities) for decades. But maybe Dick Cheney is secretly in charge of Detroit. It’s all so clear to me now…
You keep pointing out that blacks have over come racism against them as if that is evidence that the racism doesn’t exist in the first place. Which is a spectacular case of cognitive dissonance if I ever saw it.
Also you also keep saying that voter registration isn’t targeting blacks despite the GoP stating it was targeting blacks because blacks vote Democrat.
Again it is becoming clear why you think you live in a society with no institutionalized racism. When it happens you ignore it because it doesn’t fit your pre-conceived notions.
LOL … right out of the American radical “progressive” playbook. Just as I thought, DeLoftie. Thanks for the confirmation.
Except that if this is “racist,” then myriad other countries across this great Earth must also be “disenfranchising” PoC (or, at least their minority populations) since they have even more stringent ID requirements to vote than the US. And also, you’re engaging in the bigotry of low expectations in that somehow PoC’s cannot get a FREE ID card in order to vote. Especially when ID is needed for so very many more things. Perhaps these are discriminatory, too?
Cite please. And what “perception” of black crime is erroneous? How does Florida’s law benefit white defendants over black?
What is this, the 1830s and we’re dealing with Native Americans?? Please show us how PoC culture is “trivialized” in the US.
Except, of course, for something like serial killers, whose profile is usually always white males. That aside, is there any reason such profiling exists? Is there, perhaps, a vastly disparate crime rate for such a small segment of the American population?
Cite for this, please.
BOOM! I knew that you would shred that list to pieces, Hube. 🙂 As soon as I saw it I was like, “Hube is going to have a field day with this.” That’s why he wanted to avoid specifics…
Yes, saying “cite please” over and over is shredding to pieces …
Depends, are these myraid of other countries only enacting voter registration laws in areas with high black turn out where most blacks don’t have ID cards months before elections in these areas where Republicans expect to lose and have stated they must stop Democrats from voting?
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133
White defendants are considered to be “standing their ground” (particularly if facing a black victim), black defendants are considered to be aggressors even when attacked by a white victim.
Such as the case of Michael Giles, a black man, attacked by a white man. Giles shot the man in the leg using a legally carried fire arm. He is now doing 25 years because apparently that was too dangerous a defense.
Turn on MTV. Watch white person dressed up as black/indian/asian person. Rinse. Repeat.
When was the last time you were randomly stopped by the police because they thought you might be a serial killer cause you were white. Actually when was the last time that happens to any white person?
BTW, you know in New York 9 out of 10 stop and frisks are against innocent people. Are 9 out of 10 innocent white people regularly stopped by the people over fears of serial killers…?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/santorum-targets-blacks-in-entitlement-reform/
Depends, are these myraid of other countries only enacting voter registration laws in areas with high black turn out where most blacks don’t have ID cards months before elections in these areas where Republicans expect to lose and have stated they must stop Democrats from voting?
Are you aware that black voter turnout has been higher in states that have enacted voter ID?
And there you go again with the “most blacks don’t have ID cards …”?? Really??
Turn on MTV. Watch white person dressed up as black/indian/asian person. Rinse. Repeat.
That is your source???
When was the last time you were randomly stopped by the police because they thought you might be a serial killer cause you were white. Actually when was the last time that happens to any white person?
You mentioned profiling. White males are the ones profiled for serial killers. I just provided an example. If this is the case, then why is it irrational to profile others for different sorts of crimes? FWIW I oppose stop and frisk on a personal liberty basis. But profiling that occurs when authorities can utilize another offense, that I’ve not much of an issue with.
Lastly, as with your MTV “defense,” you’re using a failed presidential candidate’s idea regarding welfare benefits as “proof?”
Here’s another link showing voter ID laws don’t inhibit minority voting.
I believe Doug is referring to item #1. But seriously, you really need to provide some back up for your assertions
I did, but my post is conveniently “awaiting moderation” by Doug …
Also, I sincerely question how interested you are in actually reading the citations.
Are you just asking because you think I can’t back it up, or do you think you would actually change your mind given the citation?
Actually Hube what would make you change your mind?
Relax, he-man. If you included many links it’s a normal WordPress spam security feature.
Oops, forgot to close blockquote in my last post
Will any counter-sources sway you, DeLoftie, when I provide them?
I’m out to lunch. You have left a lot of comments today. Perhaps WordPress’ spam filters wanted to make sure you weren’t a spammer.
Trust me, I would not want to hinder Hube from in any way.
Have you lived in the States, DeLoftie? If not, on what are you basing all your allegations in your list?
I have lived in the States. But my list was based on what PoC in America say is happening. I wouldn’t be so foolish to base my view on what I, a white European, experienced while in the States.
Again do you not think that listening to PoC is worth while? Obviously there will be no problems if you simply ignore people complaining about problems.
You can either choose to think that a significant majority of PoC are simply whining about non-existent problems. Or you can think that your perception of an issue is not the whole picture.
I highly doubt people like Ms. Park make up a “significant majority.” How did you come up with that? Based on your selective online readings?
A bit more than far-left theorizing and selective statistics.
But this should make you feel better: I changed my view on capital punishment in the early 2000s, and have always maintained that prison time for victimless crimes such as [minor] drug possession is ludicrous.
Despite the impression you may have gotten here, I’ve an open mind.
Ok. So would a statistic that you are far more likely to get off on a stand your ground charge if you are a white person who shot a black person not at least make you think that there might be a racial element to the stand your ground law?
Is this statistic real? Where is it? How many instances of “stand your ground” have come into play which included a white and a black?
How does the Zimmerman/Martin case differ significantly from the Roderick Scott case (Google him and look at the Snopes link)?
From the liberal left wing rag The Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2363939/White-people-kill-black-people-Stand-Your-Ground-states-354-likely-cleared-murder-Fresh-questions-self-defence-law-wake-Zimmerman-verdict.html
Martin wasn’t breaking into cars for one.
Always wonder why people don’t think Martin had a case to “stand his ground” against Zimmerman who by his own admission was stalking him and threatening him.
Anyway I prefer to look at wider trends than isolated cases.
From your link above:
Sounds indeed like a “wider trend,” eh? Twenty. Five.
Martin wasn’t breaking into cars for one.
It wasn’t Scott’s car, either.
who by his own admission was stalking him and threatening him.
“Threatening him?” When did Zimmerman “admit” that? And he “stalking” him because he was a neighborhood watch guy. Y’know, that’s what people in those positions are supposed to do.
Also do you not think that there is huge prison time for drug possession for drugs mostly found in black communities points to a racial element in those laws. Why does crack cocaine get you life imprisonment but cocaine gets you a few years?
You guys seem to think racist laws will have “This law only applies to black people” written in the pre-able, which is willfully naive.
Do you just think blacks are more dangerous than whites? Is that the explanation for the huge disparity between number of black men serving time than white men?
RIGHT. I’m back to work tomorrow. And as fun as this has been I’m not going to come back to the discussion again days later because you guys say I’m not answer questions.
So before I leave if you have any burning questions that you think will expose my blatant Communist leanings ask them now or for ever hold your peace
Good. You didn’t add anything to the conversation. You really need to get over your self-loathing and obsession with race. It’s not healthy.
Self loathing? Come again?
You feel guilty for your “white privilege.” In order to atone for the sin of being born with white skin, you’ve cast yourself as some sort of foot soldier in the quest to right wrongs for black people who, in your world, a.) aren’t smart enough to figure out how to get a driver’s license once every for years, or b.) can’t make it in 2014 America because of MTV programming. You admit you have no answers, so one must assume that all of this is an exercise in intellectual self-flagellation. If DeLoftie believes black people are incapable of overcoming obstacles in 2014 America, then by God he’ll show them what a great guy he is by flogging himself over and over again for his pigmentation.
Earlier I mentioned an out-of-wedlock birthrate of 75% and you scoffed. No, the “successes” of the Great Society and the War on Poverty (e.g., millions of black kids aborted and millions raised by single mothers) doesn’t concern you, but the fashion choices of MTV VJs does. Interesting.
Well, would racists want blacks to harm themselves with drugs to do more damage to their communities, or have laws which would, at least in part, protect the community? What is ridiculously naive is that, just because a law may have a disproportionate effect doesn’t mean said law is de jure “racist.”
Violent crime statistics suggest just this. Black men make up approx 6% of the population but commit, if memory serves, 4-5 times that percent of violent crimes. This doesn’t mean I believe blacks are inherently more dangerous than other populations, however.
The drug laws don’t protect black communities. They end up with huge numbers of black men in jail for ridiculously long time, have a devastating effect on these communities (it is always assuming that conservatives complain about single parent families while also looking up black fathers by the truck load). They are designed to protect white communities from rampaging black men high on crack cocaine.
Which is still a tiny percentage of actual blacks. But despite this they are far more likely to face criminal time for non-violent crime.
It is the fear of black violence that motivates these laws, not the reality.
Shouldn’t that trend be replicated across race?
You asked for a difference, I gave you one. Scott was confronting a group of men committing a crime. Zimmerman wasn’t. He was chasing down a black kid who Zimmerman thought was up to no good.
Zimmerman admitted to shouting at Martin. He also admitted to following him around the neighborhood, and that this is why Martin confronted him. Martin also said over the phone that a creepy guy is following him.
Why did Martin not have the right to stand his ground against Zimmerman, who was acting threatening to him?
I believe the actual quote was “creepy ass cracker.”
Shouldn’t that trend be replicated across race?
“… the data doesn’t show the circumstances behind the killings…” But to your point, shouldn’t general crime statistics be replicated, then? Why or why not?
Why did Martin not have the right to stand his ground against Zimmerman, who was acting threatening to him?
What was the actual threat to Martin other than a neighborhood watchmen following him and asking him what he was doing? That justifies beating the sh** out of Zimmerman? Again, I am not defending Zimmerman for his actions taken as a whole, but it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman when all Zimmerman was doing was his job.
He wasn’t following him. He was chasing him and shouting at him. And he had a gun.
I don’t know what neighbourhood watch is in Flordia, but in Dublin it is an observe and report system, not a observe and chase down with a gun system.
Go ahead and quibble about the semantics of “follow” and “chase.” Sheesh. And yeah, he was asking what Martin was doing. But the fact that he had a gun was in no way apparent until after Martin attacked him. Zimmerman wasn’t brandishing it at Martin, certainly.
Oh, and Zimmerman did observe and report. One of the misreportings that took place was that Z had disobeyed an order not to follow Martin. There was no such order. The dispatcher advised Z that he didn’t have to follow Martin. You can likewise quibble over Z’s actions after this (I happen to believe this was the pivotal moment, and had Z listened to the dispatcher Martin might still be alive today. However, Z was concerned that he would lose Martin if he gave up following him.)
If anything, you should be angry at the prosecutors who reacted with emotion over the law and overcharged Zimmerman. He should have been convicted on a manslaughter charge.
Even the prosecution’s star witness, Trayvon’s girlfriend, believes Mr. Martin threw the first punch. Like it or not, that was the first real crime committed that night. Zimmerman may have been foolish for pursuing Trayvon the way he did, but being foolish is not against the law. Cold-cocking someone in the face and then bashing their head against the concrete is, most definitely, against the law. Perhaps DeLoftie will add that to the list of “bullshit laws” that prove secretive groups of really white guys are out to have young minorities throw in the slammer or put six feet under.
Why can’t minorities just punch white guys in the face and get away with it? The Knock Out “game” should totally be legal.
Which is still a tiny percentage of actual blacks.
It seems I lowballed the previous figures: This is a “tiny” percentage — “According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008.” The vast majority of these were male.
So, with black males committing violent crimes drastically out of proportion to their percentage of the general population, it is therefore … “irrational” to claim that they’re likely to be “more dangerous?”
The drug laws don’t protect black communities. They end up with huge numbers of black men in jail for ridiculously long time, have a devastating effect on these communities
So, it is your contention that drug laws are what have broken up black families? Despite illegitimacy figures growing hugely for that population long before the “drug war” began? (This doesn’t even mention the effects of, y’know, the actual drugs on the black community, particularly the crack epidemic. And I figured a bright guy like DeLoftie would be aware of the big differences in effect between powder and crack cocaine. Maybe sentencing laws should be equal for marijuana and heroin, then.)
Ooops, the correct second link in my post above is http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/VIOCRM.PDF
And Doug — I have a comment in mod due to two links. FYI.
So by saying that maybe we should listen to people who claim to experience racism I’m feeling guilty of my “white privilege”?
I couldn’t be that, oh I don’t know, maybe I think helping and listening to others who are facing problems is a good idea?
I’m sorry, I forgot, they aren’t facing problems they are just all whining.
What?
I literally have no idea what point you seem to be making now. You both think black people are having too many babies and at the same time aborting too many babies.
Anyway, its be, er, educating, to say the least Doug, to get into the mind of someone like yourself, both deeply angry paranoid and conspiratorial about forces moving against you while equally annoyed to no end of people complaining about structural forces in society.
Or to put it another way, your blog seems to be you whining about how other people complain.
Cause after all we all know it is really the white male who suffers more than all else, right
Back to work for me.
Here, I’ll help you: It was your ridiculous invocation of MTV as evidence of a “cultural genocide” (or something) of PoC’s. Remember? I sure did, because I laughed at it for about a good solid minute.
Nine times out of ten, when a liberal accuses you of something it’s because he is the one guilty of the transgression in question.
This is coming from the same guy who sees conspiracy theories in voting laws, drug laws, hiring practices, MTV programming, and concealed carry legislation. 🙂 The last one is funny, given that the Second Amendment applies to all Americans. The last time I checked, people who defended the Second Amendment were okay with having black people carry firearms. The only people trying to disarm honest law-abiding black people are liberals. How is that working out for you, Chicago?
Back to making up strange cases I never made and then reacting to that, huh? Oh well. In case you forgot, this entire blog post was about Suey Park. It wasn’t about every minority who has a beef, or the Irishman who will defend their honor on behalf of really, really concerned white guys everywhere. If only more black people had guys like you looking out for them they’d be able to get to the Department of Motor Vehicles on time.
I listen to people who are serious. Suey Park is not serious.
You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t take Suey “only white people can be racist” Park or DeLoftie I-think-most-people-are-ignorant Dublinface McIrishman all that seriously.
You don’t remember? ‘Anonymous’ has your IP address.
Was that not a scoff? I’d say it was.
How am I angry? I’m not angry at all. If you were standing in front of me right now you’d see that I’m incredibly calm. As I told you before, my life is unfolding quite nicely. I’m happily married, I’m healthy, I have a great family and with God’s help I’ve attained all of my major professional goals — with more to follow. My message is one that is uplifting and positive, where you (again) admit that black people and minorities are forever doomed to live in a world of “white privilege.” In your world, black people should curl up into a ball and cry themselves to sleep at night because MTV VJs dress like them. No DeLoftie, I couldn’t be happier. I just think it would be nice if you adopted a worldview that wasn’t so depressing.
My favourite part of this was DeLoftie using the Daily Mail as a reasonable and unbiased source. The paper is famous in the UK for being extreme.
Thanks for letting me know. Even better was how this “source” didn’t even come close to proving his “case”:
But the findings are not yet conclusive – the data doesn’t show the circumstances behind the killings, for example whether the people who were shot were involved in home invasions or in a confrontation on the street.
Plus there are less white-on-black shootings in the FBI data -only 25 total in both the Stand Your Ground and non-Stand Your Ground states.
Additionally Stand Your Ground laws can be applied at multiple points during an investigation.
Only 25 total!!!
That proves everything! lol
That did make me chuckle as he seems to have quickly googled something to use as evidence despite saying earlier on that people should check their sources.
“My favourite part of this was DeLoftie using the Daily Mail as a reasonable and unbiased source. The paper is famous in the UK for being extreme.”
I don’t know a whole lot about UK papers, but I’ve heard similar sentiments expressed about the Mail before. Same with the Guardian.
“That did make me chuckle as he seems to have quickly googled something to use as evidence despite saying earlier on that people should check their sources.”
That’s exactly what he did. And then chastised everyone else for supposedly not checking their sources. The thing about the internet is that people can always find something that can reinforce their POV, and that’s what DeLoftie did.
And there’s nothing wrong with that, as long as you actually read through it to make sure it doesn’t contain “qualifiers” that essentially make the entire article useless, and the Mail’s was. Or, using a failed presidential candidate’s supposed proposal as evidence of an actual government policy, like DeLoftie also did.
And this doesn’t even take into the hilarious “evidence” of MTV as a purveyor of “cultural genocide” …!! 😀
A reader sent me this that I thought you guys would also appreciate:
True. I got a chuckle out of how he thought that Santorum’s supposed proposal was “evidence” of actual government policy. It wasn’t any better than the useless Daily Mail article he linked to.
LOL! That gave me a chuckle, too. The way MTV DJ’s dress is apparently “evidence” of “cultural genocide.” Wow. I haven’t laughed that hard in a while. 😀
I think Dublin was doing a bit of projection there, assuming you’re “angry” when in fact you’re not. I seem to recall Lizard and other trolls doing the same thing. But with Dublin, being angry comes with the territory of the self-loathing he has for himself and his “white privilege.”
Hey! I think I found an example of DeLoftie’s [ridiculous] MTV-style “cultural genocide!” Here’s a taste:
LOL. Why am I not surprised that this article is from Salon.com, which is right up there with MSNBC in terms of outright moonbattery?
Hube, I don’t even know what to say in response to this. It’s a Catch 22. No matter what you do, the race baiters will find a way to chew you out. If you don’t particularly care what the heck these activists do, you’re insensitive for not paying them enough attention. If you actually do show interest in “culture x,” then you’re accused of trying to water it down or claim it as your own. Basically, you have to be at the beck and call of the activists, and when they say jump you have to say “how high?”
Word of advice for belly dancers: try saying “F**k off” to the race baiters. The more you beat yourself up for these clowns, the more you encourage them. I’ll express myself the way I want to express myself. If I’m not infringing upon anyone’s rights, then those who don’t like it can jump in a lake. That’s the nicest way I can put it…
Come on… you’ve got to put this in perspective. This self-described torch-bearer for radical feminism sure knows how to pick her battles. You think as a young Korean she’d be aware of that paragon of modern misogyny, K-Pop, an entire industry that is literally built on the fundamental principle that young Asian women are nothing but disposable commoditized sex sluts that transmit a singular message across Asia…. that young Asian women need to carve themselves into the likeness of *gasp*……. whitey… in order to gain acceptance, and wear cheap slutty clothes while grinding and grooving and winking and gasping.
But nah…. why bother attacking an industry that influences 2 billion young people every day and brings that destructive message into every quarter of their existence via new media when you can just sit back in your pajamas and shoot off cheep tweets against a white guy for “alleged” offensiveness. No wait… it’s offensive cause I say so. This is the new nihilist trend in “free speech.” The metric of the most easily offended sets the new bar. Unbelievable.
Mommy, that’s a nice yellow flower. *GASP* YOU CAN’T SAY THAT!!!!!!!! That’s a cheap metaphor equating a flower’s color to 500-years’s of socioeconomic structural discrimination ohhhhhh my gggggawwwwwddddd…….
LMFAO. You can’t possibly take these people seriously.
Boom! That one left a mark. Ms. Park is going to spend awhile taking care of that one.
Thanks for the comment, Martin. I appreciate it. It seems like we’re on the same page regarding K-Pop.
Now you’ve given me another chance to share some Big Bang ‘Fantastic Baby’… I believe Suey Park’s cameo comes in around 2:19 😉
“Racism and whiteness go together. Only white people can be racist.”
…
How much alcohol will I have to consume in order to understand the absolute idiocy behind that statement? It baffles me. Really, it does.
Wow. Somebody reposted yet another freaking Huffington link that got spewed into the feed. I found an article on why HP stinks and reposted that. But to make a long story short, my searches including Youtube eventually lead me to the subject of Suey Park, and a search on her name lead me here.
I got some good laughs at how humorously and intelligently all that progressive racist spew was debunked and smashed here.
I’ve smashed a few liberal chain letters myself, but my tone tends to get considerably more ticked off. Not so that ai cuss or get vulgar, I don’t do that. But progressive self-righteousness and how they pretend to “care” so much for “the poor” “the non-white/people of color/minorities” “the disabled” and gosh, the way they’ve totally hijacked the “anti-bullying” cause and turned it into a cause for bullying those who disagree with or are indifferent to the gay pride thing, makes me sick.
I’ve had to split from “friends” on FB because they kept reposting this distorted, depressing schlock about how women/the disabled supposedly have it so incredibly bad just for being women or disabled. One friend is an old schoolmate, so I haven’t the heart to de-friend her, so I just unused from her stories, but she always seemed to have a bit of a chip on her shoulder about being disabled, and lately she’s been indicating that she’s turning vegetarian and is obsessed with diet. *Rolling eyes* Bleh. Shades of animal rights creeping in? So she and this other friend kept reposting articles/links about how some poor person down in Somewheresville half a continent away got treated anywhere from irreverently to plain badly because they were disabled. and the other friend posted some puke-inducing feminism dreck articles that made me want to bang my head against a wall.
Unlike them, and unlike Suey Park, I am no victim, nor will I allow their poisonous mindset to dictate how I should feel. Suey Park needs a good slap upside the head and told to get a grip.
I linked to this entry in my own rant which can be found here.
http://Capri.pbworks.com/Stop+Stop+Stop