Anyone who has read George Orwell’s ‘1984’ is familiar with the Ministry of Truth and its “memory holes,” those fabulous tubes that get rid of pesky realities for the good of The Party. Anyone who has ever frequented the Spider-Man section of the Marvel message boards for any length of time knows that Ministry of Truth is alive and well, deleting comments that draw metaphorical blood from the monster that is Superior Spider-Man — or its creator Dan Slott.
Lucky, the Brotherhood exists … and proof of it can been seen in the search engine terms being used online each day by countless Peter Parker fans.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Doctor Octopus is Spider-Man. It doesn’t have to be that way.
This blog is on pace to have roughly 25,000 page views for the month of July. The individuals who get here search any number of topics, from liquid fluoride thorium reactors to Navy SEALS, weightlifting advice to the national debt. However, readers also get here because they care about the character Spider-Man. I have taken one search result from each day this month in order to highlight what many Spider-Man fans are thinking:
July 31: “Is Peter Parker coming back?”
July 30: “When will Superior Spider-Man end?”
July 29: “Dan Slott should be fired”
July 28: “Will Peter Parker return?”
July 27: “Superior Spider-Man ending”
July 26: “Dan Slott is an asshole”
July 25: “Why Dan Slott ruined Spider-Man”
July 24: “Dan Slott is an asshole”
July 23: “Bring back Peter Parker”
July 22: “Will Peter Parker return as Spider-Man?”
July 21: “Dan Slott sucks”
July 20: “Fire Dan Slott Superior Spider-Man”
July 19: “Superior Spider-Man people are pissed”
July 18: “Can Marvel make Spider-Man good again?”
July 17: “Bring back Peter Parker”
July 16: “Why Dan Slott doesn’t want Peter Parker returns?”
July 15: “Dan Slott hates Peter Parker”
July 14: “Bring back Peter Parker”
July 13: “Dan Slott sucks”
July 12: “Why does everyone hate Dan Slott now?”
July 11: “When is Superior Spider-Man ending?”
July 10: “Bring back Peter Parker”
July 09: “I hate the Superior Spider-Man”
July 08: “When is superior spider-man going to end?”
July 07: “Idiots killed off Spider-Man”
July 06: “Sick of Superior Spider-Man”
July 05: “The Superior Spider-Man sucks ass”
July 04: “Will Peter Parker come back?”
July 03: “When is Peter Parker coming back?”
July 02: “Will Peter Parker come back?”
July 01: “I hate Dan Slott”
Here is a screenshot from the July 21 to give you an idea of what WordPress bloggers see on the back end. (Side note: I love that people are now searching ‘Harold and Kumar Get Droned’ because it was a piece of satire I wrote on Kal Penn’s hypocrisy that appears to have taken on a life of its own).
These are only a fraction of the search terms available, but even if I included the others a pattern becomes clear: There are a lot of dissatisfied fans out there who want Peter Parker back and many of them are not happy with Dan Slott.
Search Engine stats tell us exactly why the moderator for the Marvel boards has a penchant for deleting posts when they come from someone who might be perceived as Dan Slott’s intellectual “superior.” Search engine stats tell us why Dan Slott must turn to the moderators at Comic Book Resources and ask them to shut down the debate when he can’t goad guys like me into saying something that would get us banned.
“This whole topic has become abhorrent. Can the mods please close this thread? This has already gotten far more attention than it deserves,” (Dan Slott)
Search Engines stats are why the moderator at Newsarama shut me down — and then shut down all comments when strangers came to my defense.
And finally, search engines give us a clue as to why, perhaps, Dan Slott was a no-show at the San Diego Comic-Con for the Superior-Spider-Man panel. I suggest you watch it, if only to see 33 minutes of pure awkwardness. (At one point fans had to be asked to show their excitement for the book three times because the first two efforts sounded like a room full of kids being told to eat re-fried beans out of the can.) Dan Slott “phoned in” his participation towards the end, and when someone said they couldn’t relate to the Superior Spider-Man because Otto was essentially “Jerk Spider-Man,” the response by Mr. Slott and Steve Wacker was essentially: “The book is awesome! … Want to hear Dan Slott’s impression of J. Jonah Jameson?”
In the end, there will always be many more comic book fans than there are Peter Parker fans. That is why Dan Slott likes to talk about sales. And that is why when intelligent people start mulling over the actual merits of the book (e.g., How is this any different from turning the Red Skull into Captain America and then trying to pass it off as creative genius?) their comments go down the Mighty Marvel Memory Hole.
Rolling Stone put a real terrorist on the cover of its magazine, a lot of people got upset, and sales went up 20 percent. Dan Slott turned a fictional terrorist into Spider-Man, a lot of people got upset, and sales are up. Sales are not the sole litmus test for success, and they certainly aren’t the litmus test for decency. Hopefully, by offering you a glimpse into the search terms people use to get to this blog, your confidence will be renewed that there are plenty of fans out there who are not happy with the state of Spider-Man in 2013.
History will not judge this era of Spider-Man comic books kindly. In time a writer with true vision will come along who will unite ardent fans of Peter Parker, those with no particular loyalties who are just looking for an interesting tale — and yes, the lowest common denominator — who will buy anything as long as it says Spider-Man on the cover. And when that happens and sales skyrocket the world will see Dan Slott for what what he truly was, which was certainly not a good steward of one of the greatest characters of all time: Peter Parker.
Related: Dan Slott goes nuts over sales because he knows Spider-Man fans don’t respect him
Related: Big Bang Theory delivers punishing blow to Superior Spider-Man; Dan Slott feigns delight
Yeah, of course fans want Peter Parker back. Plenty of other fans are enjoying the current direction. There are people who want Peter back who are also enjoying the current direction, because those people actually understand the whole point of what Slott’s doing. The people who are saying Dan Slott sucks are missing the point of what he’s doing, so it’s no surprise that they’re pissy about it.
Superior Spider-Man isn’t about how Otto’s so much better at heroism than Peter was. It’s actually about the complete opposite. Otto’s a more effective hero, but he’s not a better one. He’s too much a villain to be a hero. Everything he’s doing is working to take down criminals, but it’s also totally immoral. Peter may not have been as effective, but he did what was right. Even when what was right wasn’t what he wanted, even when it screwed up his life, he did what was right. Otto does what’ll work, whether it’s right or wrong, and doesn’t mind doing the wrong thing when it benefits him personally.
The reason most of those threads posts you showed were deleted was because a lot of them were basically just attacks on Slott or the book. They were whine-assing, and that’s just a waste of space.
Peter Parker will be back. And in 10 years, people are going to look at Superior, and they’re going to recognize that it was a really good story that showed just why Peter Parker needs to be Spider-Man.
Spoken like a true fan of Superior Spider-Man. You’re better PR man for the book than Dan Slott. He could learn a thing or two from you.
Dan Slott’s “point” could have been made without killing off Peter Parker (twice), and then putting Otto into the role. There is no reason why Otto couldn’t have been given his own little book to play around with this idea. It could have been an extended “What if?” because really, that’s all it’s worth.
Regarding the Marvel posts, I’d dispute you on that, but … the posts were deleted. However, some of those posts were mine, and any “attacks” I’ve made have a.) been about the content of the book or b.) in response to Slott’s personal attacks on others.
Here’s one of my deleted posts:
That posts was in response to pages of Dan Slott weirdly mocking “Fuzzball” over his profession, allegations of “sock puppet” accounts, etc. I write one comment in response to his countless attacks, and it’s gone. Telling.
So, Mr. Expert, if I don’t like the Superior Spider-Man, it’s because I’m too stupid to understand where the story is ultimately going? Wow. I didn’t realize my reading comprehension and ability to see foreshadowing were completely erased because I don’t see the value of killing Peter Parker in order to… well, first it was a desperate act of a dying man. Then it was revenge. Then it was to protect Pete’s family. Then it was to be “superior”.
Along the way, my lack of comprehension must have been completely in the basement when I missed the significance of the mind-rape of a major female character, the petulant, near-fatal beating of a non-powered woman, the second death of the primary character, actual premeditated murder of a wounded and unarmed criminal, invasion of privacy, attacking teammates who want to know what’s wrong, even more murder, blackmail, and an army of henchmen. I’m going back to Dr. Seuss, where I can understand where Green Eggs and Ham won’t blow my mind too badly.
Of course Slott isn’t going to show his face in public, but he knew this would happen beforehand, and entered into this situation gleefully. You can tell it by the way he crows about Peter staying dead, how he AND his Ed-McMahon-stooge Wacker acts (his support troll), the hamhanded way he insults the “whiners”, and of course, the sales numbers.
You can’t demand respect. It has to be earned. Slott has shown he can take Otto Octavius, turn him into an unbeatable force with absolutely no backstory to support how he is able to do this, make Peter Parker a pathetic sack with absolutely no backstory to support this either, and all his allies are either conveniently missing, or maybe they’re like me: too dumb to understand.
I will grant Slott his day in the sun; I believe these are his last, because once he fouls this story up to the point where nobody is buying the books, Marvel will absolutely put him out for the public to chunk rotten food at in the public square. I really am curious as to where he’s taking this, but I hate the road taken. It’s sloppy, unprofessional writing, and disrespectful to the fanbase and the canon.
This whole response was rather joyous to read, but I liked this part the best:
Boom. I was thinking the exact same thing. Xmenexpert’s comment is just as condescending as something Slott would say, he just wrapped it up in a more presentable package. That’s about as much as I can ask from defenders of the book … so I tried to extend tact in his direction.
Truthfully, I suspect a lot of it is simply fatigue. I think Slott and Marvel got tired quickly of the vitriol the book received. Slott even received death threats. And while death threats on the Internet are pretty common, I suspect it still turned off Slott and the forum moderators. So maybe they’ve gone too far in stopping criticism of the book. But comparing them to 1984 is pretty absurd.
And I’m not sure if the story would’ve been as effective with Peter also running around. I think we needed to have Peter out of the way.
Given that my reference to ‘1984’ deals specifically with Memory Holes (i.e., erasing content that does not fit the official party line), I would not say that the post is not “absurd” at all. It’s quite appropriate, really. But instead, you would like to twist it into “Douglas Ernst thinks Dan Slott would round up his detractors if he could and torture them.” Nice try. Although, given that Slott would like to go to individuals’ houses and give them the “Jay and Silent Bob” treatment, we can no longer argue with the notion that he has weirdly violent fantasies about those who annoy him.
And there, xmenexpert, you show your own hand when it comes to the character. The way you say Peter needs to be “out of the way,” as if Peter Parker was no different than, say, Rocket Racer or Speedball, is telling.
In regards to death threats, I get it. Given that I had a strange package on Islam sent to my door because of this blog, and given that I had a guy send me Silence of the Lamb-ish emails — to my personal account — because of this blog, I empathize with anyone whose had to deal with that sort of thing. That is one of the downsides of not being anonymous. However, I would also point out that Dan Slott’s online behavior often fans the flames of the very people he’s scared of. He’s the one who finds fans on random forums and tells them to “f**k” themselves. He’s the one who mocks them on the Marvel boards instead of just acting like a professional and ignoring them. He’s the one who tweets about going “Jay and Silent Bob” on them. So you’ll have to forgive me if my empathy for him only extends so far.
Hey dude! I’d like to talk to you about comics!
Oh, and Doug? Love the queries. Made my day. Keep up the harangue. I’m usually not a hater, but things like the unilaterally free hand Slott has taken has irked me. Especially when he’s using it to slap the fanbase right in the puss. It irked me when Tom Cruise put himself into the role of Jack Reacher, too. Some things simply demand a sustained public outcry.
Thanks. Yes, there’s no way I could keep up any sort of daily or weekly rant on the book (nor would it be appropriate), but when a post seems natural, I’m there. I contemplated doing this post awhile ago, given that there are months worth of search results. I was actually rather kind with the searches I used. If I wanted to make this one big string of personal attacks, the search results exist to make one — but I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to simply show the patterns that exist.
I’m assuming my next post will be issue 20 or around there, unless something happens that warrants an earlier entry. The character of Peter Parker gave me decades of good reading, so the least I can do is occasionally remind the world of the lack of reverence Mr. Slott has shown him.
Hey Douglas I’m trying to organize the Early Stages of a movement (THE REAL SPIDER-MAN) to protest Superior Spider-Man starting on FanFiction.net My alias there is Arachnobat I am not savvy at all when it comes to social networks and stuff and don’t have the time so I was hoping that I could have some advice on getting the early stuff worked out because the only way were getting Parker back is if we gouge there sales. Spider-Man saved my life he helped keep me from suicide as a child he was my only friend as I grew up in that sense he is real to me and if I could have taken the bullet for him I would have. To all those who honor true heroes I give you my thanks for exposing the psychopathic tendencies of Slott and his cronies.
Hi, Ryan. First off, I’m glad that you made it through that tough time in your life. As your story demonstrates, the character of Peter Parker is incredibly important to a lot of people, which makes the way Dan Slott reacts to those fans even more bizarre.
I’m happy to answer any questions you might have. I’m not sure what direction you want to go, but if you have specific questions I’d be happy to answer them.
I’d start a Twitter page if you haven’t already. That seems like the quickest way you’d be able to disseminate your message and pick up some followers.
I think that ultimately they’ll bring Peter back. They almost have to with the new movie on its way…but perhaps your efforts can speed up the process. I would just continue to post on different websites and let your voice be heard. Whether you’re going through personal problems or you’re dealing with the editorial direction of comic book the same lesson applies: You’re never alone.
There are a lot of people who feel the same way you do. Don’t let the response by the creators at Marvel get you down. Keep hammering away…
Anyway, you’re always welcome here. Feel free to vent any time, Ryan.
Great article, just to share here:
I know Fuzzball I work at the same place as him. I also read comics so we share that passion. I read the forums often but never felt the need to participate until one day Fuzzball was getting attacked maliciously by Slott on the forums with silly accusations. Fuzzball conducted a vast amount of research on distribution and sales as well as consumer response of the Superior Spider-Man book(7 stores in different states and over 700 responses). Slott and the moderator made many nasty remarks and tried to make Fuzzball out to be a fraud. Fuzzball provided charts proving his points (they were removed). The moderator claimed the data was false. Fuzzball posted proof with a letter from the marketing manager from the distributor stating the numbers were “very accurate” (that was also removed). That is when I decided to go in and state that I agree with Fuzzball.
Fuzzball was then banned and his account was removed.
I was temporarily banned for no reason other than supporting Fuzzball.
A few weeks later Slott did not like a response that I had (which was not an attack in any way). I responded to a response that he made to a person that stated that he perused over 150 issues of Spider-Man and decided it was not for him. Slott attacked him saying he was not being fair. I stated something to the effect that you do not have to read a book cover to cover or watch a whole movie or eat something in its entirety to know if you will like it. He sampled over 150+ issues was that not fair. Slott then attacked me calling me Fuzzball with a sock puppet account. This went on for pages of attacks. I challenged him to look elsewhere for example you can see in word press where I communicate with Fuzzball proving that we are not the same person. Eventually forum members started commenting to support me, they noticed that Slott will attack a person rather than answer any questions when he knows that he is wrong or has no proof. After a great amount of forum member support the moderator removed over 4 pages of support for me banned me, and permanently erased my account.
I will also say that none of the support messages broke any of the forum rules yet they were all removed.
And that’s the point: Dan Slott engages fans like you in a manner that is certainly not professional, and then when it gets out of hand (or he’s losing), he and the moderators blame you. Or Fuzzball. Or whomever. Then he goes to twitter and rants about you. On other forums Steve Wacker becomes his tag team partner, acting like Bluto or some annoying frat dude, at which point he accuses the fans he’s mocked of being “bullies.” Projection, much? It’s one of the most unprofessional outfits I’ve ever seen. I don’t know what Marvel is thinking.
Hah. So earlier this week I was starting to worry because the number of posts on a forum criticizing Superior Spider-Man that I regularly check had slowed down. But then yesterday I decided to peruse other forums dedicated to discussing Superior only to realize that the reason the traffic flow had slowed was because all of the normal discussion forums had become anti-Superior Spider forums. Second thing I realized was that the majority of the positive comments for the comic were made by the forums’ moderators. This makes me highly skeptical of their objectivity.
On a separate note, am I the only one that hopes that the two upcoming Peter Parker Spider-Man comic series sell through the roof?
The Peter Parker series is a bit of a double-edged sword. At least, that’s my knee-jerk reaction. On one hand, I want them to do well because I want Marvel to see a groundswell of support for the character. On the other hand, I’m a bit insulted. It’s like, “Hey, let me throw these guys a bone and shut them up.” Well, I don’t want dinner scraps. I want a meal, and that would include Peter Parker back as The Amazing Spider-Man.
My other problem is that I’m just so soured on the editors at Marvel that giving them cash doesn’t appeal to me now. What I’ll probably do is wait and see what people are saying about each series, and if they’re really good I’ll bite. In the past I would have purchased them no questions asked.
What’s really going to be interesting is when Disney decides the business model isn’t bringing in enough cash and removes autonomy (or the appearance therein) from the writers themselves, and starts doing focus groups, brand management, and corporate identity guidelines. Urf. I think I threw up in my mouth a little.
Regardless, this will put the brakes on any such future “creative visions”, legitimate or induced by early childhood bullying, recreational drugs or a really bad cab ride.
Actually Rogue I am kinda looking forward to Disney kicking some of these guys asses. Comics have been making the same damn mistakes for well over two decades now & it really has to stop. Something has to change in the status quo & I am willing to give Disney a shot if they actually try and do something about it.
Sure they might screw it up, but that is true every time somebody tries something new. That being said Disney has a fantastic track record with their acquired properties recently (Pixar & Marvel movies have been great). If they can do the same thing with the comics then more power to them.
I really don’t think Peter Parker will come back in the next twelve months unless Disney does something. Not only are they releasing ASM 700.1-.5 to appease fans but when the next film comes out there going to throw us another “bone” releasing the admittedly awesome sounding Family Business graphic novel so they can cash in on the movie buzz without having to actually own up on it.
I read Spiderman for many years, Now that Dr. Ock took over, I only read the summaries in Wiki and glance at the book, at my local comic shop. According to the Wiki summary, Alistair Smythe also developed brain wave transference technology. Don’t you think that if 2 villains come up with the same scientific creation, that intelligent Marvel super heroes can come up with the idea? If so, couldn’t they postulate it as a hypothesis to explain the current Spiderman behavior? There are many problems with the idea. For one thing, if you kill a person’s memories, would they write in the same hand writing style? Probably not. Would they write with the same phases and words, or approach scientific problems in the same way? A change in scientific approach would be noticed by folks at Horizon Labs, Reed Richards or even the baboon of a professor at ESU. He might think – gee, I’m seen that approach to science before. Sure. You were both room mates. If I were the original Peter, I would have gone to the Jackal. Make a deal to switch my memories to a clone and then teamed up to defect Doc in his body. For now, I’ll stick to reading folks like DareDevil, Thor, Hulk, Green Lantern, Batman, Original X-men, etc. Sure. I might occasionally pick up an issue of Superior Spider-man – if he does something interesting (like battle the Green Goblin). But for the most part, I’ll stick to reading the Wiki summaries.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, Randy. I appreciate it. What you point out quite nicely is that there are many potential customers like you out there, content with Wiki instead of coughing up hard-earned cash. Imagine what “sales” would be like if a direction for the book was applied that also resonated with you. But yet we’re told “sales are great!” Well, compared to what? What they were in the 90’s? What they could be if the tens-of-thousands of Randys out there picked up the book regularly? The current market environment? I hate getting into it on sales, but it doesn’t take much effort to expose the Marvel-line as a bit of a shell game.
Maybe next they’ll make the Green Goblin Spider-Man and we can be told how cutting edge that is…
Dan Slott didn’t show up in San Diego? Not surprising. Probably didn’t want to answer tough questions about Inferior Spider-Man and stay back in New York and on his Twitter account and trolling the message boards instead, where he’ll be protected by the idiotic fanboys who worship him like he’s some kind of god. What a baby.
I’m glad to see there are many fans that feel the same as you and I do, that want Peter Parker back. I still want to see One More Day/Brand New Day reversed as well. They’ve really mishandled Spidey since the turn of the century.
And you received death threats, Doug? That’s pretty scary stuff, especially the Silence of the Lambs-ish e-mail.
Well, Spidey started going downhill with the ultra-lame Clone Saga (which originally was going to involve the dissolution of Peter’s marriage to Mary Jane, so that’s where the OMD “plot” comes from) in the 1990s and the idiotic “The Final Chapter” which pointlessly resurrected Aunt May after a pretty good sendoff.
I received a weird book in the mail to my home address (not sure how they got it). I also didn’t receive outright death threats, but this person did send extremely creepy emails (to my personal email address). They were strange enough to cause me to do some investigative work of my own to identify the person.
If you want a glimpse into some of what I’ve dealt with, there’s a blog out there that’s dedicated to hating me. I don’t think it’s been active for awhile, but I’m not 100% sure. I made it a point to ignore it as much as possible.
Yeah, I remember stumbling around that particular blog. According to Google, it hasn’t been active for nearly a year. I’m glad that you chose to ignore it, because trolls want attention. If you don’t give them attention, they’ll fade away.
I’ve never personally received death threats. The closest thing I’ve ever had to that have been people trying to challenge me to fights, both in real life and online. I may have mentioned this before, but back when I worked at McDonald’s, a customer actually challenged me to a fight once.
It’s usually best to just laugh at those kinds of losers and walk away. The last time I was close to an altercation was outside Barnes and Noble of all places! This dude was right up in my face over a comment I made about the president — as I was on the phone with my mom. I’m confident that if that guy put his hands on me it would have ended badly — for him.
When I get really angry I can literally feel the blood or adrenaline or whatever it is coursing through my veins. My hands shake not because I’m scared, but because I feel like there’s an electric current going through my body. It feels like my heart is pumping a gallon of blood with each beat… That’s why I never understood why some guys mess with complete strangers. You never know the other person’s past or what they’re capable of.
I’d forgotten about that post. Yeah, for the most part, I just to ignore losers like that. The angry customer at McDonald’s challenged me to a fight in the parking lot (after I allegedly screwed up his order, but I did no such thing) just so he could look all macho in front of his wife and young kids. I told him to piss off and he didn’t bother me again.
That is just one of the reasons that I do not use my real name. I also do not trust Slott to be responsible with it. I work in many fields part time as a consultant and author and I do not want any issues to come from power plays.
I’ve never received death threats per se or weird packages. Apart from being challenged to fights and I may have mentioned this before, but I did get some weird e-mails in the fall of 2010 by some losers who were basically asking me to kill my friend because he had “wronged them”.
I don’t even know how they had gotten my email in the first place. It freaked me out, to say the least. I may have mentioned it in your post about that punk you dealt with on the DC Metro Line, I don’t know.
Carl buddy i said the samething about One More Day/Brand New Day that needs to be reversed too, the only thing i wish they would keep is from Spider-Island, and that’s MJ getting spider-powers.
One of the things I find mildly amusing about all of this hoohah is that Slott is the classic Shakesperian tragic protagonist, but lacks the wherewithal to see it himself. He has set his own stage, and is drinking his own poison, thinking it’s a mighty fine beverage.
Point 1: He himself has taken full credit for the concept of SSM. Has made it clear when the idea came to him (#600), and has worked tirelessly to make this come to fruition. So he will take all the blame when it fails. Conversely, he gets all the glory if it goes down as something magnificent. I’ll go with the former.
Point 2: He has taken the flagship Marvel character and not only killed him, but did it in a demeaning and debasing way, thus creating an enormous hate-wave he had to have seen coming. This will not go away, ever. Even if/when Peter comes back, Slott will be known as “that guy who killed Peter Parker back in the ’10’s.”
Point 3: He has claimed repeatedly this is not a gimmick, or a series of stories, but the new “reality” for Spider-Man. People do not believe this, and he is now branded a liar in the name of preserving the story. Most readers don’t care about this fact as it’s part of comics, but anyone who has a creative soul at heart doesn’t like to know themselves as liars. Even worse, if he’s telling the truth, the only way I see for PP to come back is for Slott to get replaced.
Point 4: Due to the enormous feedback, he is under the Marvel hammer now to produce sales, and knows he will be swept aside when they drop below a certain point for a certain period of time. I’m pretty sure this is an unambiguous number we have no way of knowing. It may even make Disney rear its head and take a more active role in how Marvel comics are produced, and start sanctioning stories. Then Slott will be known as “the guy who killed Marvel.”
Point 5: Slott has claimed a love for the character. I don’t see it (at least, not yet), and he has to come to terms with the fact that he has this legacy now, for good or bad. And because it may take a toll on his confidence if he decides his personal goals haven’t been met with how SSM plays out, this may actually become his last real creative spurt.
Point 6: Slott&Co is dedicated to the media blitz surrounding SSM. He absolutely must keep buzz alive, for every single issue. As anyone in marketing knows, negative buzz is still buzz. Keep people talking. Because of Point 1, Slott is the absolute ground zero for the crapstorm SSM has generated. So he has to eat it on a daily basis. Pressure and creativity do NOT go hand in hand.
Just my 2 cents (again). Intermission over. Back to the play!
Wow. Rogue. Seriously, you are a boxer who just threw six seriously punishing jabs. Great stuff. I’ll respond in more detail later, but I must once again thank you for your contribution to his post.
Spot on. Even if one were to believe he could find a way to make Peter’s comeback one heck of a story it will never erase the way he went out like a punk (twice). That is something that can not be taken back. Such an extended absence of Peter Parker in the Marvel Universe is so insulting I don’t know how there hasn’t been a mutiny within the company. Think of some of the horrible, horrible characters that have been getting ink and then reflect on Peter biting the dust in such a deplorable fashion. That’s tough to forgive.
There are interviews online where Dan Slott refers to ghost Peter (or whatever he was) dismissively as “Jiminy Cricket.” Who does that? Answer: A man who does not believe in the principles that make Peter Parker a great character. Laughing off Peter’s core being as “Jiminy Cricket” is the mark of a man who thinks Peter is outdated, corny and irrelevant in the modern world. The reason why Dan Slott had such a hard time writing a decent ASM was because deep down he doesn’t seem to get the character. I think he’s much more in love with Spider-Man’s look and his powers than the man beneath the mask.
Again, you’re on the money. I actually give Dan Slott credit for strenuously promoting the book, but it seems like there’s always some sort of “game changing” event happening. I guess it works for a lot of people, but constantly pushing this sense of urgency gets old.
This is a side note, but he also talks about how much time he puts into the book, deadlines, etc. Again, that’s fine. Everyone wants a creator who is invested in churning out the best content possible. However, if you’re going to talking about all the late nights without sleep in order to make it to deadline, then perhaps what’s really going on is that you’re not being very efficient with your time. Perhaps said creator is spending too much time trying to counter online critics instead of weaving great tales.
Anyway, it looks like we’re both going to be monitoring SSM until it runs its course. Hopefully you’ll run across my future posts because I’ve really enjoyed your take on all of this.
I’ll pop in from time to time. This is cathartic. Enjoy your day! 🙂
A friend of mine sent me an email regarding Spider-Man. I thought I’d share it here:
This current slot direction reminds me of the Superman bizarro world. I read a comment on a review from issue 14, that would really be keeping with Dan Slot and even a Seinfeld bizarro moment. Imagine that Peter Parker is really Norman Osborne and is now the Green Goblin. Madam Web transferred his consciousness into Norman’s body and the “real” Peter is caught up in Norman’s insane mind. I wouldn’t put this past Dan.
At this point, I put nothing past the “Brain Trust” behind the wheel. I almost don’t want to try and imagine what they’re up to next because seems as though what low my mind can come up with … they can go lower.
I just read this comment over at ComicVine and it blew me away. It’s originally by a guy who goes by K-Box:
Not sure why he went for the cheap dig at Cheney at the end (I’m pretty darn conservative and anyone who reads this blog knows I am no fan of what Dan Slott has done), but overall this is a punishing critique.
It’s a very well-done critique, apart from the dig at Cheney. And he brought up a good point about how Inferior Spider-Man reads like really bad fanfiction. Today’s comics from the Big Two as a whole tend to read like really bad fanfiction and DC’s New 52 writers were told to write in “fanfiction style,” as was revealed at a convention in Baltimore last fall.
I’m not a fan of fanfiction, period. I think it’s a poor exercise for aspiring writers and you’ll have more fun coming up with your own characters.
I was looking at panels from issue 14 of SSM. Spock now has a giant spider mech and an army of “arachnauts.” Huh? Is the new uniform cool? Yes. I REALLY like the uniform. I’m not going to lie. I’m sorry, but years from now people will look it his giant spider-robot, his spider-army, etc. that and think: “Well, that was embarrassing.”
That sounds awful. Why does Spider-Man need a giant spider mech and an army of archnauts?
I also wonder how Slott operated in the era before social media? Did he troll people on Usenet if they disagreed with the kiddie comics that he got his start with?
“Jay and Silent Bob ’em.” If I didn’t know any better, I’d say Slott was threatening violence against someone.
Over at Comic Vine he tried to explain the reasoning. My response is that we all have people who have said mean things to us over the years; not all of us make jokes about punching them in the face.
Yeah, he can’t take constructive criticism and throws tantrums when people don’t like his stories. And name calls, and threatens violence. And gets people who criticize him banned and thrown off forums, Twitter and the like.
Bottom line, we’ve all had people say nasty things to us, but most people don’t make “jokes” about punching them.
I’ve just found that people who put those sorts of vibes out there … tend to have them boomerang back on them. So if you go around talking about how much you’d love to punch people who piss you off, the universe has a way of sending more individuals into your sphere of influence who piss you off! If you act like a baby on the forums, you invite a.) other babies and b.) adults who will put you in your place. Dan Slott tends to see everyone who disagrees with him as a baby … although that clearly is not the case.
Exactly right. People like that are just asking for trouble, and they usually get their comeuppance in the end. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: if Slott worked in a real job (that is, outside the entertainment industry) and his employer caught wind of how he was acting, he’d be fired. I’m not sure why Marvel is okay with his behavior.
Especially if he was doing it on company time.
I just want to add a relatively minor issue that I have with this series (on top of everything else you guys have stated, especially the whole rape thing–something that has disgusted me to the point where I can barely form coherent sentences.)
Slott keeps claiming that Ock is smarter and better than Peter, yet we keep getting shown that Ock has to rely more and more on tech than Peter did, since he’s unable to compensate for his lack of understanding of Peter’s powers–but apparently has too much ego to…you know…practice? Slott and everyone else keeps hyping the tech as showing how he’s improving crime-fighting (by spying on people?) yet, they always seem to keep quiet when you point out that Ock stole Peter’s tech previously for his plans (Ends of the Earth) in order to destroy the world, and even then–while Peter is being strangled to death, he’s able to figure out that Ock’s grand plan will leave all of the survivors brain dead–something Ock had obviously NEVER CONSIDERED. Even afterwards, when Ock has been defeated, Peter explains to him how easily they had found and disabled his tech..noting that Ock’s planet-saving, altrustic plan would have never worked because it was too easy to hack into and corrupt by anyone with half a brain.
That’s one of the biggest issues with Ock–he’s smart, but he isn’t as smart as he THINKS his is. All the tech he’s using now, Peter could have easily made (or has used some form of) in the past…but he never NEEDED to use it to save lives.
For a character constantly claiming to be “superior”, he seems to have to do an awful lot of compensating to hold a candle to his predecessor.
Sorry that my reply isn’t as brilliantly written as others on here, maybe Rogue of Doug himself can take this point and make it sound smarter, haha.
Don’t sell yourself short, Mitch! You are a smart guy and it’s coming across quite clearly. You’ve made some excellent points that haven’t been explored here yet, and for that I tip my hat to you.
Only a few years ago Marvel had a company-wide crossover event that was an allegory for the Patriot Act. They clearly portrayed the anti-registration side as the morally just heroes. (In real life it’s more complicated, but that’s just how Marvel played its hand so we’ll go with it.) Now, in perfect conjunction with the NSA spying scandal we have Dan Slott trying to pass off Otto as a “superior” version of Peter, an anti-hero who fans are supposed to get excited about each month even if it’s at the expense of Peter Parker being alive and well in the Marvel Universe. In one instance Marvel felt the need to “take a stand” per se against unjust policies that were stealing your civil liberties. Now? “Forget about it and enjoy the DocOck-as-Spider-Man ride, baby!” — as you pointed out in another post.
Oh, and P.S.: If you thought the rape implications for having Doc Ock in Spider-Man’s body were created with editorial decisions Dan Slott made, he will mock you for it. He will pretend that you’re “distorting” what he did. He’ll link you with guys who write fan fiction Spidey-porn. Why? Because it’s much easier to personally attack you than it is to discuss the issue at hand. And speaking of “hand” … wasn’t it Dan Slott who wrote a scene where Ock was essentially pleasuring himself to M.J. in Peter’s body? Shhh…don’t call Ock a wannabe rapists or Dan Slott will get mad.
Thanks again for the comment, sir. Like I said, your reply was well-stated.
I’ll pop in on this, Mitch. You’re absolutely right. The amount of tech being used has become a sort of SpaceBalls-level techstrosity. Almost camp. This is definitely intentional, but I wonder if it’s because Slott can’t figure out how else to establish Otto’s “superiority” and intelligence (which is waaaaay over the top, regarding this story), or if it actually furthers the story and will become a plot mechanism for how SpOck is taken down. The way PP has been portrayed historically, tech has ALWAYS been part of Spidey’s shtick… web shooters, anyone? Spider tracers? But, he has always relied on natural talent and fighting skills to get the job done, which Slott has actually shown SpOck lacks (Everyone comments how Spidey isn’t fighting well, but nobody puts it together with his complete personality change). Overall, it’s been Spidey’s writers’ fault over the years that this his tech has never been updated significantly (until Slott’s run on Amazing, which I can’t fault for doing that; it was way overdue) and now it’s being OVERdone: less of a logical progression and more like a frantic gimmick. This upgrade frenzy has applied to almost all the villains under Slott. How many times do we have we watched The Tinkerer tinker? Sheesh. The guy should be a freakin’ gajillionaire by now with all the crap he’s made recently for everyone, including the Hobgoblin. Don’t get me started on Boomerang and how he’s become an A-list villain. Even he’s gotten tech-y. I suppose it’s what the writers feel will connect best with young readers, but it’s not “Insert Tab A into Slot B” forcefully until you hear a click. It’s got to be more subtle than that, and I think you’re seeing Slott’s Hammer-O-Tech, and it’s just not true to the canon, something I’ve kvetched about before.
Great point, also is his addition to the villains with all of this tech taking away from the villains character? I suppose he wants to make them more menacing but they are becoming a joke.
Yeah. It’s definitely looking more and more like a crutch. The longer it goes on, the more obvious it gets.
I just want to say that I enjoyed reading everyone’s insight.
It is odd that Slott will block anyone that makes a violent post and then try to sound superior (pun intended) while he then turns and does the exact same thing.
It’s the internet equivalent of “No backsies”.
@Douglas; Guess what, after contacting Marvel and telling them about the bull in moderation my account has been reactivated. I also shared how Slott has been hunting me down to lie about me in other forums. I still do not think I will post there anymore but I may PM people there.
Nice! That just goes to show that if you talk to the right people in the right way … there’s always a chance to stop power-tripping Marvel moderators.
Spider WHAT DID YOU DO! My account is also back up in the Marvel forum, my account was deleted!
I also do not plan to post there unless I get in a mood to bicker. You have to tell me what you did.
@Truthwillwin1: I first talked to them “I talked to 3 people” about how other forum members have been feeling that the treatment was unfair by the moderator and Dan Slottt but that did not get me far. Next I told them exactly what happened to me and to the best of my knowledge you. This took some time, I then sent them screen shots of some of Slotts comments in response to your posts and asked them what did you do to deserve to have your posts removed and get banned, this started getting me more attention. I then told them where to find your video on what happened to you and your posts it was clear that they were not happy about that. I also explained my extreme displeasure with the moderator and Slott when they accused me of being you and banned me for no reason. I then showed them screen shots of Slott following me into the comic vine forum and doing the same thing and made a point to show that they did not ban me and remove his posts to protect him. The discussion lasted a while longer and they said they would look into it and get back to me. Now both of our accounts are restored.
Who knows how long it will last but it was a win for the little guys.
I honestly believe that Mr. Slott needs to be fired. He has taken a character like Peter Parker that made us believe that it was possible that any of us could be a hero even with our deficiencies and turned him into a merciless parody of humanity. He basically prostituted Spiderman and looking at the sick grin on his face, you can see that when he says he “loves” Peter Parker, his actions on issue 700, SSM #9 and through out that disgusting series is a blatant lie. I honestly stopped reading Spiderman ever since they massacred the marriage, it sadly was a sign of things to come. I honestly believe that an industry where their fans opinion do not count, should be an industry that should be boycotted until they fix their mistake or simply passes away,
ahh, the inevitability of this is that at some point Slott WILL BE GONE. Disney will require Marvel to hire a competent EIC, that will rebuke stupid ass ideas such as what Slott produce with SSM. Not all of Slott’s ideas have been bad, but SSM is horrid. I loved the hell out of Spider-Island. Sadly however, Remender, Waid, Fraction, and Bender (he found himself again on Uncanny X-Men and All New X-Men) are the only good things currently going for Marvel.
Scott Snyder is currently the hottest writer in comics in my opinion. AMAZINGLY enough, I have a great script in mind to return Peter Parker back to his body while undoing OMD/BND/OMIT. I have another script I’m going write. I hope to submit to them to Marvel, i’m going to try my hand at comic book writing.
The whole Mind-Rape thing is reminiscent of the Rape of Ms. Marvel which was then retconned and fixed by Chris Claremont. The fact of the matter is this, Otto is supposedly the “Superior” Spider-Man. His approach to being a hero is the same as being a villian. Also the whole point of him keeping ghost Parker was so he could access those memories to connect to PP. One would think with ghost Parker eradicated from existence shouldn’t SpOck go back to acting as a villian. Also when did Ock become one of the smartest men on the Planet? he has never been, nor ever was as far as we all have been led to believe near the Top 8 minds. The Top 8 minds being, Reed, Doom, Banner, Pym, Stark, T’Challa, Beast, Cho. After them I’m sure it’s Mr. Sinister, High Evolutionary, Scientist Supreme, Arnim Zola, Kitty Pryde.
I’m sure I’m missing some, but in one book they portrayed SpOck as being smarter than Beast. Then in SSM AU he called Tony Stark an imbecile or something or other and that he could beat Ultron because Tech and AI was his thing. Parker has obviously proved to be smarter than him. So the fact they have dumbed down PP to lose to Ock (on his deathbed no less) is absolutely ridiculous. Dunno if this is true or not, but when one is at death’s door. pretty sure their mind isn’t as sharp as it is when they are fully healthy. So for him to have pulled off this elaborate scheme was and remains utterly silly.
btw Doug it’s Kyle
Kyle, Is Kitty that smart? I was not aware of that.
Indeed she is, Truthwillwin1. I believe Kitty was characterized from the start as having a genius-level intellect, and was something of a child prodigy.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain how (even if Pete’s spider-sense was dulled) that Ock could ever know it, or that Pete wouldn’t FEEL a freakin’ bot crawling up his body. This whole thing just BEGINS with an impossible scenario and gets worse from there. This should have gone: “What is that climbing on me? A little gold robot with legs… and it’s talking like Ock..” (crunch).
Guys, do you realize Disney is the Parent company for Marvel Company? What if, since Slott is acting like the big shot that he isnt, we get Disney to take care of the matter and we dont just get Parker Back, we also get his life back on track,especiallyt with that marriage ring right back on his webbed finger? And since Otto has been so stressed out latelyu being someone he’s never going to even match, they give him a looooooong well deserved vacation, since Strong Guy is now the head honcho in that nice hot destination im thinking about, maybe that can also be arranged?
Could you please send me a copy of that script? Joe Quesada once said in an interview that MC2 is the real canonical future of Marvel meaning that every single issue of 616 after Mayday’s disappearance was a waste of money. I’m really interested in seeing how this mess could be cleaned up. These writers aren’t sadist anymore they’ve been so for 50 years honestly my father’s a pedophile who were trying to lock in jail and I hate Slott even more. Slott has murdered the soul of Spider-Man and in doing so the soul of Marvel and the entire industry. When will they realize that we don’t hate happiness, aging and character growth? So if there is any way to fix this mess please show me.
ok, so now, he has a crew of minions!? Spider-mega-zord!? and people say it’s the best thing that has happened to spider-man in the last decades? I’ve must have really lost something in the way here…
Hey guys, I feel I should just leave (or re-post rather) the link to the SDCC Panel where Dan Slott has taken to once more insulting everyone who would listen. I’m sorry but I won’t stand idly by and watch a bully brow beat his detractors into submission and hide it under the fact he’s holding Parker by the balls…
For the record I’m known as SoraMatt on these comments, but honestly as it progresses I feel more and more Slott is acting EXACTLY like his character, Doc Ock. No WONDER he finds Ock relatable because IRL he’s a little shit that needs a punch in the jaw. And more and more I react as if I WAS Peter Parker, just sending his own bile back in his face and being even more sarcastic than he is… I mean part way through the argument he literally had NOTHING so he tried to nitpick the way I spoke, but that didn’t hide the fact he got caught by the balls.
Buuut in case it gets deleted (we all know how he has to call on moderators to win his losing battles), I’mma screencap these comments. Doug if you want them for your blog, you can screencap them yourself (along with the rest of the bile he spewed against fans of Peter Parker) or email me personally for them.
Link to Slott’s bile can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiBzsfY0cqE&feature=share
“…but honestly as it progresses I feel more and more Slott is acting EXACTLY like his character, Doc Ock.”
This is a very astute point. I think one of the reasons Dan Slott had such a hard time writing Peter Parker is because the character is, in so many ways, the opposite of how Dan Slott presents himself in public forums.
No need to worry about Mr. Slott deleting your comments here. A few of my posts have, in some way, become outlets where people can vent their frustration with the book without having to worry about his ability to lean on moderators to delete or censor posts. I’ll check out the thread over at the link you provided (thanks!) for sure. Keep the screenshots handy, because whether it’s you or me or someone else, sometimes the behavior of Dan Slott almost demands its own blog post — if for no other reason than to show customers just how unprofessional a creator can be.
I see that he made false comments about the numbers again, the same numbers he tried to use later to brag about sales. I will not debate him on youtube (I also said that there). Did you discuss your issues at the expo? He said you were not there.
I took down my youtube post I know if I leave it up it will cause a debate and I do not have time for that right now.
I will say this here:
The charts were not bogus and I have proof, it is also funny that you used the same numbers to try to say sales were great in a comic vine forum. The numbers were not bogus that was a lie. I have also stated that if he has a problem with the facts please feel free to discuss it where I have posted a fair article on the topic. Sales are up but they are not up to where they were in the past (fact). Sales are not as high as the flag ship competitor (fact). Superior has had more marketing and gimmicks than any book that has been out for a very long time (fact).
I offered a debate about this and he never responded (fact).
No I didn’t but I DID point out why:
1. Why would I go to a panel to burn his ass when he can pull a Doc Ock and have his tentacles throw me out? (Security) when it gets too hot under the collar?
2. Why would I stand in line for an hour for an autograph I don’t want just so I can say his book sucks?
I was actually hoping to spot him in the mid-way (I saw a lot of artists and writers like Tim Sale and Ken Wheaton that way and it was awesome) and just tell him straight-up his book sucks. Why the heck would I knowingly put myself in a situation where he can get me kicked out of a con I love in MY hometown when I got better things and more interesting people to see? Like Carrie Fisher and Nathan FIllion for example?
You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you wait line and confront the guy, he’ll say you’re a freaky person who has nothing better to do; if you don’t confront him, you’re somehow avoiding him.
Dan Slott is the guy who gets people banned on forums for rather innocuous comments or simply a forceful disagreement. Given that, I’m sure it’s a good bet he wouldn’t be able to handle confrontation in public for longer than a few seconds.
I did find it funny that the crowd cheered more for Peter as spider man than Otto; and I can understand that this is going to show how Peter is the superior. Hell, even when I just typed “when” into the google search, the first match was “when will Peter Parker come back”… This debate may be reaching a breaking point. Provided Dan Slott can resist insulting the fan base like an elementary school bully. I have accepted that its only a matter of time like Dick Grayson as Batman. (Though at least this was tastefully done, and made sense). Meanwhile, I will stick with scarlet spider, he may be a clone, but at least it is essentially Peter.
P.s. with all the telepaths in the marvel universe, why (according to the panel at comic con) is it going to take a symbiote to finally realize its not really Peter inside? I mean really people?
Good point about the telepaths, Tim. That is weird, and then on top of that the supporting cast has been acting like dolts for how many issues now? I guess they’ll ultimately figure it out, but it’s been rather embarrassing to watch Mary Jane and others bumble around as if their IQ dropped 20 points for the duration of Superior Spider-Man.
And the fans rage on…
And Dan still doesn’t get it. People are grieving, and yes, it’s over a fictional character. And he’s still laughing at them. And getting boo’ed. Again.
Thanks for sharing, Rogue. Besides just being an insensitive clown to fans who love Peter, it’s Dan’s Slott’s moral relativism that makes for a horrible Spider-Man.
Did Dan Slott mean “With great power comes … the responsibility to try and kill six billion people”? That’s what Ock did. And now he’s Spider-Man. Dan Slott’s Spider-Man. Yep. That’s the kind of character I want the guys at Comic Book Resources giving me high fives for…
De nada. This link was relevant to the blog post. 🙂 And I’m still not sure why even now, Slott didn’t understand that stating Peter Parker wasn’t coming back was going to incite the assembled group. I get that he reeeeallly wanted to tell this story. But holy crap on a cracker, why alienate half your fan base? It makes no sense at all. Throw the fans a bone. It won’t destroy your story, meathead. It’s like when you have to go for a long car ride. If you know it’s going to take 5 days to get there, you stop counting the miles, and enjoy the ride.
And yes. Moral relativism. It’s an ambiguous spot to place your perspective, and impossible to defend.
Hey Mr Ernst, is this true?
Resolved Question: Do you think Peter Parker will return in Superior Spider-Man?
What’s your opinion? I hope he does. I mean the story so far has been good ( not great) but I don’t like Doc Ock as Spider-Man though. Peter is the bomb. I miss the wise cracks he used to pull and the struggling he had with Spider-Man and his social life.
Do you think he is gone in the comic universe?
Asked by Carlo 2 months ago Report Abuse
Marvel has already announced that Peter Parker will be returning, just not for a year or so. They have some storylines they want to explore and when they are finished, he’ll be back.
Answer by TheSage 2 months ago
Marvel says he (our friendly neighborhood Parker) will be back soon. Do you have any info on that? It would be great to get the real deal back. And sorry for the bother.
Hi Original Spiderman Fan,
I have to assume that Peter will be back. He’s too important to the Marvel universe to be gone for good, and the new movie will be coming out next summer. I’d be shocked if his return didn’t coincide with the movie. He’ll be back. The only thing that remains a mystery is when, exactly, that will be.
Marvel is in a weird spot because Dan Slott can’t really write Peter. If they bring Peter back, I don’t know who will pick up the pieces.
Thanks Mr Ernst for taking time to answer my question. The decision to kill off Parker has had me so angry, I mean, what else can they do to one of the most human of all the marvel characters. He’s the everyday American Joe that makes us believe that its possible to surpass a life of tragedy and mold it into an instrument to help others. When they dared to make Peter (or ghost/mind Peter) look like a selfish child in SSM #9 I was outraged, since its only natural if a evil, arrogant clown like Octavius had stolen your body and masqueraded as you when he has clearly other sinister motives, I’d make sure he wouldn’t do anything to harm innocents and I’d make sure to fight for my survival as well. Since they’re so hip on using Mephisto to damage Peter the first time, why not use Zanathos or the new demon lord Strong Guy to make things right. The bottom line is that they betrayed their own fans by not listening to us, that I believe, will be a lasting reminder to us, even if they give us Peter, the wedding gets written back or even May Parker is written back in continuity as a bonus as a move to quiet us back into good terms. We
*We sadly have learned that we dont mean anything to the self proclaimed “gods” who have no souls in Marvel (A loose interpretation of Slott”s salf portrait of self). Thanks Again Mr. Ernst for giving us a place to vent out some steam. At least somebody cares out there.
You’ve posted some incredibly heartfelt messages, Original Spiderman Fan, and I appreciate that. Why? Because you are not alone, and now many more people will inevitably come across your words. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment.
With that said, feel free to stop by any time and feel free to call me “Doug,” since when you’re on these boards and need to vent you’ll always have a friend. Need an ear? I’m here. Like I said: You’re never alone.
Sadly, the moral compass of the editors at Marvel — and more specifically those working on Spider-Man — appears to be broken. Yours works, thank goodness. Just keep doing your thing and voicing your opinion. Keep plugging away, because at the end of the day all that matters is that you’re trying your best to do what is right.
If Peter Parker was real, he’d be proud to have a fan like you in his corner.
I feel sorry for Dan slott. From his overly defensive, embarrassing and at times appalling behavior on the Internet, i would guess that he was probably picked on at school. I’m not at all proud to admit that if I had gone to school with him, I would have picked on him. I was an asshole as a youth, I was the kid with a cruel nickname for everyone. I was also into comic books. Superman taught me that if you squeeze coal really hard, you get diamonds. Batman taught me how to sit on a rooftop and sulk. Spider-man taught me how to be a decent human being. Peter Parker is an incredible character who I can honestly say has made me a better person. Fiction is very powerful stuff. From the looks of things, it has turned Dan slott into doctor octopus. What he has been up to with superior spider-man is…interesting. My biggest gripe about comics is that the status quo never changes. We are always led back to the same basic scenario. So on one hand, I love the idea of a super villain trying to redeem himself. I love the idea of spider-man’s life changing forever. But on the other hand, a villain cannot redeem himself by murdering someone and stealing their body and if spider-man’s life is going to change forever, then it has to be Peter parker’s life. Because spider-man is not a costume or a power-set, spider-man is Peter Parker. I am no longer reading spider-man comics, because there are no spider-man comics currently available. This bitter, antagonistic affront to one of the greatest fictional characters of all time will eventually end, hopefully before too much more damage is done, because fiction is Important. It does more for the world than any sales figures can ever reflect. Still, if marvel can erase something as unique and wonderful as the marriage between Peter and MJ, they sure as shit can erase this pile of vomit. Here’s hoping they don’t take too much longer.
There’s a lot of good stuff in your reply that’s worth unpacking, Hamish. I’m a little beat and have to work on Saturday, so I’ll keep it short:
He does seem to see himself in Doctor Octopus. It’s rather bizarre. He seems to take great glee whenever he gets to rub Peter Parker’s death in the face of longtime fans. What kind of man does that? If I knew tens-of-thousands of comic fans grew up with a character who was “the” definition of a hero — and I killed him off — I would not carry around a handful of salt to rub in their wounds. Only someone with serious issues behaves that way.
Well said. I do think there was a place for a “Doc Ock redemption” story in the Marvel Universe. I was never opposed to that. What I am opposed to is, as you said, murdering Peter Parker (twice) to do it. Doc Ock is a body snatcher. Period. And yet we’re supposed to root for they guy? How can a body snatcher be redeemed?
Anyway, thanks again for commenting. I really appreciate it.
Dan Slott is the new Ron Marz.
After reading the debate Dan Slott had with Matt Robert McKenzie, you can really see the hypocrisy of Dan Slott. I love how Dan Slott says you need to have your name attached to it in order for it to count yet I recall him posting without using his name on several occasions in forums and in responses to articles.
thank you Truthwillwin1, the fact you are mentioning me outside of your usual forums and the fact Dan Slott IS acting like his comic book avatar TO my replies just fills me with hope that there is still room for the snarky, sarcastic, yet warm-hearted goofball that IS Peter Parker. We have too many jackasses running around in comics, we NEED our everymen who can screw up and be normal like the rest of us. I mean hell DC Comics turned Superman into a grimdark, near-antihero bully, and HE is the biggest example of heroism. So when you grimdark the Man of Steel AND the Wall-crawler, why should we as fans and readers believe in our heroes? Who will inspire us? Dan Slott fails spectacularly at that.
I agree, I also just read where someone posted the recent sales numbers (down again I might add) and Slott had to respoond, yet just the day before he said he was taking a break from social media until winter. Dan Slott certainly has tunnel vision and does not stand by what he says. I noticed he said my numbers were bogus yet he used the same numbers to twist them to his needs. This guy lacks class.
Class? Lolz. We are talking about a comic book writer. The man wears drawings on his chest to work. He has spent his adult life writing things like “Gyaah!”, “Blast!” and “Cahoots!”. It’s a sad place when his passive-aggressive fantasies can be fully realized by convincing a few nabobs (with less of a clue than he has) that this storyline had merit, long term. Maybe I’m simply upset that the man has shown less remorse for causing so much fan-based grieving than Otto himself would. Wait, no that’s wrong. They’re disturbingly similar.
Even though the job is writing comics the person should be a professional. I strongly believe that if I were his employer that I would have terminated him for his comments. I am in charge of a small group at work and I can tell you I would never let them respond to others the way I have seen him address others.
I have been in charge of small groups up to large groups (the most I have managed was in the 500 employee area).
I would never let an employee represent a company the way that he has.
No matter what the job is you should always be a professional.
You’re absolutely right regarding respect and professionalism. I can only believe he is not being monitored. That actually shouldn’t be necessary (or condoned). His biggest problem is he gets into petty oneupmanship arguments with the people who literally are the reason he has a job. I don’t know if it’s because he’s insulted that people dare to openly challenge him, or if his feelings are hurt, and like many, lash out rather than take the time to work out differences. I am not sure why he is even engaging in sales prediction threads when he is… wait for it… at the beginning and end of each day… a comic book writer.
With all due respect I AM a burgeoning comic-book writer and AS a writer alone it is a VERY difficult medium to be a part of (they all want artists these days…) and trying to jostle for position is very hard, even when you know the right people. So it’s probably a combination of both. But at that same token I do feel slightly offended by your comments because they heavily imply that ALL comic book writers are like this moron and bastion of un-professionalism. I don’t have a published work that many people read and thus I don’t have to act as a representative for said book or the company at large.
That said I DO know a thing or two about professionalism as a musician, having that being a big stick in the mud for my career on that front and in other artistic pursuits and what he’s doing would have him thrown out of every medium a hundred times over. But yet somehow through political glad-handling, he’s keeping his job. The only thing I’ll give the bastard credit for is, like his avatar in the Marvel Universe, he knows how to survive endless assaults of righteous beatings.
But I would please request you stop making ALL of us who write and wish to write comic books as children who quite never grew up. There are many writers out there with controversial books and acts who act FAR more professional than this nitwit does, chief among them Brian Michael Bendis and Frank Miller. Yes, Frank Miller. For all the bile he HAS written, he doesn’t act like a rat bastard to people when they say his work is awful and point out why. In summary, a bit below the belt, let’s keep the gloves up. 🙂
Otherwise I’m with ya on this train of thought.
As you observed earlier in your reply, it’s a small industry to break into. There’s a “good ‘ol boys” feel to it, and Dan Slott is already in the club. He’s made the right friends, he’s of the right political stripes and for whatever reason that’s enough to keep saner (more professional) people above his pay grade from keeping him on a shorter leash.
Besides Dan Slott’s weird behavior towards fans, I just think it’s odd how much time and energy he’s expended in arguments he has no intention of finding common ground over. He seems to just relish his ability to needle critics — even those who have legitimate gripes. Wouldn’t he be better off spending the hours upon hours upon hours of time he uses to scour the Internet to find things to get upset over be better utilized with family and friends? Instead of coming up with creative ways to insult “Fuzzball,” why not use that creativity to write a better comic? Or perhaps he could just cast it all aside and watch a movie with his wife…
The guy has serious issues. I hope he works them out.
I’ve found that he seems to take criticism of his work as some sort of attack on his self-worth. He often seems unable to separate dislike of his creative pursuits with how fans feel about him as an individual. Unless Doc Ock as Superior Spider-Man really is some sort of projection of the “real” Dan Slott, I’m not getting why he does that. Just because someone takes issue with your performance on a specific task it doesn’t mean that you’re a bad person, Dan…
It’s interesting that you think I believe comic book writing to be something to be degraded. Not at all. I implied that Slott should not have the mindset of being consistently argumentative online, as it erodes the goodwill he needs to be a successful writer. This is true for any creative. You need your supporters, your fanbase, your admirers. Its the crux of the matter for selling your work. You can create for the sake of creating for your own personal satisfaction, but that’s not what’s being discussed. The other comment I made which is likely the one that set you off is that at the end of the day he’s a comic book writer was implying that he has no real depth of understanding of the mechanics of sales predictions and the marketing savvy necessary to read those numbers, because he is a creative writer, not a numbers guru. If you insist on being insulted, I will apologize for bringing that out. It was not my intent. And as a creative myself, and one who does get paid for work, I know that keeping my inner child’s voice alive and healthy is what gives me the edge. If I didn’t have that voice, I couldn’t create, because for me, it’s where the inspiration comes from.
Many folks like the new Superior Spiderman because he is different.
But is he? We already have Scarlet Spider and Venom, who can beat up and kill people. But Doc Ock has a bunch of robots patrolling for him. How good is that? After all, the Green Goblin hacked into them. Why not also work on tech to talk to real spiders, like the Scarlet Spider does (or Henry Pym does with ants)? And if you didn’t want folks to guess your real identity, why hit a home run during a company baseball game?
It surprises me how this character can keep his identify safe from Symbiotes, telepathic heroes and villains, the scientific geniuses, folks like Doctor Strange, Daredevil’s lie detector senses, or many other means.
Heck. With all the time travel stuff happening (i.e. Indestructible Hulk, Spiderman 2099 visiting, All New x-men, etc.), perhaps the real Peter will come back that way also.
Good points, Randy. I remember awhile back the Avengers ran tests on him to see if he was the real deal, only they decided not to … bring in any scientists or telepaths to pour through the data.
Hey, SSM is awesome … if you just ignore those plot holes the size of a Mack truck. “When did Peter start sounding like a mad scientist? I’ve known him for years and suddenly he’s sounding like 1970’s Dr. Doom. Eh. No biggie.”
Matt Robert McKenzie,
I am also a musician so I also agree that how you treat your target market really matters. My friend Spider11211 is also is a musician and we have recorded many songs together (yes we are professors that have a band together please do not judge the stereotype).. We have an endorsement deal with Peavey electronics and I could only imagine how fast they would dump us if we responded to people like Dan Slott does.
Dan Slott needs to understand that no matter how popular you are you will always have more people that dislike your product than like it. Even platinum selling artists have more people dislike their music.
Dan Slott is giving writers a bad name.
Matt and Truth, Dan Slott is only giving himself a bad name, his work is judged on merit, and his behavior online has proven to be argumentative and unprofessional. I wouldn’t begin to judge anyone else by this example. I hope nobody else does. As stated above, I mean no harm to any creative, I am one myself, and know many more, most of them make my own inner circle of friends and peers. We are, however, and strange bunch. Our motivations are skewed because of the need to create, and we are incredibly pleased by positive reinforcement. I think that’s where Slott is going wrong. Because he is not getting positive reinforcement from everyone, he feels the need to defend either his work or himself by going on the attack. It’s dumb and shortsighted. Again, as stated above, I do not intend to demean anyone’s creative efforts. When necessary, I use my own discretion when my work is not up to my own standards, but once it’s out there, it’s open to everyone’s critique. It’s part and parcel of what we do. I see negative feedback as a personal challenge to improve.
That is a very solid view. I do think that he feels the need to have approval from everyone around him which is why he pushes to remove anyone that does not puff up his ego. I know it is sometimes hard to take constructive criticism. I remember one time that I was working on audio for a television commercial and I spent hours on it to get it done by the deadline. When I played the audio for the client I could tell they were not pleased (and worse yet after a break from hearing it I did not like it either). The client looked at me and said “well that sucked”.
The truth hurt but it was needed, I then went back changed the direction of creativity and made something they liked.
Lolz. “That sucked” isn’t constructive. Yeah, creatives have an obligation to two masters. Our own sense of creating something we deem worthy must be met in order to have personal satisfaction, and meeting the buyer/client/fan’s needs. Sometimes they don’t mesh well. Deadlines make it so much harder to come up with the level of personal quality and balance it with time spent versus monetary benefits. I hear ya. When it’s not just for your own consumption it’s a whole different animal. Glad to see you’ve found the balance necessary without letting it touch your ego. After a while, you realize it becomes a job and not a personal reflection. Slott’s been at this long enough to know better.
Well Rogue I’m glad we could sort it out. I should’ve guessed that insulting writers wasn’t your intention but it DID, even if unintentionally, came off as chiding and a bit condescending. I know it wasn’t meant like that, so that’s why it raised a red flag. I mean we’re all on the same side on the vs. Dan Slott and Superior Spider-Man front here, so I sincerely doubt we’re all like the troglodyte in question to try and take potshots at each other as well as this guy. I mean who does that? lol.
But on another note, he’s gotten into the “boys club” while a chunk of us are still on the outside looking in. At the end of the day, we’re just another face and name. So unless we become part of the boy’s club, what can a few voices online do to say “dude, you’re an asshole.” when at the end of the day he keeps his job. Vote with our wallets? So far that seems to be doing a bang-up job even WHEN it’s on the decline.
But it makes me wonder it’s just not going fast enough…
Nah, it’s not fast enough, but an incomplete story may actually be worse than a bad story, all in all. Frustrating for everyone. And I have to say I mis-spoke when I said I don’t mean any harm to any creative. It didn’t include Slott. 🙂 He unfortunately, gets the brunt of what is making me so crazy about this whole story, as his efforts should be so much more polished since he has the experience, the job, and the support of Marvel and the “old boys” network that exists. The comic business is so incredibly small. I hope you get your place in the comics biz if that’s what you truly want. It’s not just hard to break in until you have established yourself, I’d say it’s impossible. Unless you’re related or have a huge rep as a genius talent. Otherwise it’s slogging along, building it one piece at a time, and continually promoting yourself and getting others to do so also. I’d say word of mouth will get you where you want to go if it’s in the cards, and best of luck for your endeavors. And thanks again, Doug, for allowing this discourse. It’s your sandbox, and I appreciate the space to play.
On a side note I sold my comic shop business to get capital for a Recording studio (which Slott also took a chap shot at assuming my shop did not exist or was a failure, which was not true). I sold my comic shop business to a friend because I felt I could do better with a recording studio.
I have not regretted the decision.
I’m not going to lie, if I set up an indiegogo page about my OWN original comic book (getting funding to hire an artist is expensive as fuck!) and people got wind of the story, I will bet any money people will want to read that more than this drivel. Why? Because it TELLS THE STORY OF A SUPERHERO! Yes they deal with a modern world, yes they deal with cynical twits of the times, but at the end of the day it’s about someone rising up and trying to do what is right. Morally and wholly. Numbers and statistics don’t go out and save lives and know what is best for the self, even if it doesn’t get the greatest numbers. We all deal with those problems, they are what make us human, but a villain is still a villain, regardless of who it is targeted at.
I’ll give DC’s New 52 this credit, at least with Forever Evil they ADMIT that all the main characters are bad guys and are STILL admitting they’ve done all these terrible things. They aren’t trying to hide that they are Lex Luthor dressed as Superman, no no no. Yes to stop the Crime Syndicate he has to TRY to do what Superman would, but he isn’t running around in Superman’s cape going “HEY LOOK AT ME!!!”
I don’t know if I’m in the minority here, but I actually think the idea of Superior Spider-Man is good. I’m looking forward to reading the issues. The thing I don’t like is how they have been saying that Peter Parker is gone forever. That to me, as a Spider-Man fan, is a No-No. I mean Superior is cool and all but there is no way it should replace Amazing. Peter Parker is Spider-Man and that is the natural order of things. That being said, I look forward to reading Superior for the brief amount of time that it lasts.
I think, for those that can, enjoy what Slott is doing, then in a little bit we can all welcome the return of Peter Parker, presumably with a new writer. I also don’t think it is fair to say anyone who likes Superior isn’t a true Spider-Man fan or are in a lower class than other fans. Everyone has their taste and that will never change.
Either way, great article.
Thanks for reading and commenting, spider117. we’re actually pretty close on our opinions. I have never been against a Doc Ock redemption story. However, I have been against killing Peter to do it. I would have cut Dan Slott a little more slack, but for all intents and purposes he “killed” Peter twice and both times the”death” were not fitting of a super hero of Parker’s statue. It was rather insulting.
Is there a place for Doc Ock in the Universe as a spidery guy? Sure. Why not? However, Dan Slott seems to take sick pleasure in rubbing Parker’s death in the face of longtime fans. He’s acted like an immature kid whose parents (i.e., his bosses at Marvel) let him get away with being a spoiled brat. How old is he, anyway? He really does act like a child online. It’s weird. I mean, we all have instances where we sort of revert to petty behavior, but he takes it to a whole new level.
I know that Peter will be back, and in that sense I’m comforted. However, will Dan Slott write the book? Even his buddies at Marvel have to know that’s a bad idea. It’s time for a clean slate regarding the creative team working on Spider-Man.
you all are a bunch of stupid crying stupid babies PLZZZZ STFU U FUCKEN WOMEN AND DEAL WITH IT
Have a nice day, anonymous troll. I see you have mastered the caps-lock abuse technique and personal attacks mastered by Dan Slott. Bravo.
Hey Doug, who knows, that just might be Slott… LOL
You never know, Original Spiderman Fan, although I don’t think Dan Slott is a misogynist. I wonder if anonymous troll talks to his girlfriend or wife that way (if he’s even capable of cultivating such relationships).
That’s true Doug, maybe he’s got anti-social tendencies? Truly sad person, indeed.
The problem is that there are two Spiderman camps now. You can be a fan of Doc Ock Spiderman, original Peter Parker Spiderman or both. The problem is that Dan created Doc Ock at the expense of the original Peter Parker fans. The appropriate solution is to bring Peter back but give Doc a creative identify (i.e. perhaps a clone) and Spider powers to continue his unique crime fighting ways. After all, we do have the Punisher and DareDevil. Sometimes they do team up to fight crime. Both fight crime in unique ways.
I have a feeling with Scarlet Spider being cancelled, that Marvel might bring Spiderman 2099 as a monthly Spider-man. The Marvel comic and Marketing world has room for 3 Spider-men. Let marketing data say who will stay and who will go. I would even like to see the original Peter Parker, Doc Ock and Miguel O’Hara use their combined brilliant minds and Spider powers to defeat a cosmic foe.
That’s what is so bothersome about this, randylewiskemp. Dan Slott could have told a story that didn’t divide Spider-Man fans, but he did. In the long run, I don’t see how that is good for Peter Parker at all. I’ve said it before, but I mean it: using Slottian logic (i.e., Why can’t Doc Ock be Spider-Man), it would stand to reason that Peter Parker could be the next Doctor Octopus or Green Goblin if he was so inclined. There’s a difference between an anti-hero (e.g., Punisher) and Doc Ock and Dan Slott doesn’t get it.
The lines between right and wrong have been blurred so much that hero and villain are now interchangeable. That’s incredibly sick, and I don’t care how much Slott says he loves the character — you don’t do that to a hero you love.
First of all, thank you guys. I am having a bad day with my dog passing away, and these intelligent discussions made the day more bearable. I just happened to Google “when will Peter Parker come back” and it has led me to this page. Like all of you, I am a very passionate spidey fan and am anticipating his return (better be epic as hell). I took the time to read most of the posts on here. Its cool to me to see all your different point of views on the current SSM run. It saddens me that Slott seems to act the way he does, as I never really paid attention or heard of the way he comments to people who are passionate about Pete. I’m not really the kind of person who blogs, or even comments on things very much. I really hope I don’t receive much backlash here, but I do have to say I LIKE the SSM run.
Do I like Otto? No. Do I think he is better, smarter, or superior to Peter? Hell no. But to me that is what makes it interesting. He thinks he is a better person now, but we all know that is really not true. He got lucky, REALLY lucky. And reading about him taking over Peter’s life is CRINGE-WORTHY. To me, it is better to have that emotion, then no emotion at all.
There have been a lot of spider-man stories over the years that just made me say “meh”, and not have very much emotional attachment to the story. Sure, I love the banter, the quips, the awkwardness with the ladies, but how many times have we seen that card played out? That’s why stories like SSM, and even Dark Reign (sorry if you hated it) get me hooked. I love seeing how the bad guys would do things if they were given the chance to be the good guy. It’s a nice shake up for the series, and not one you could get away with multiple times (So I’m guessing no Splizzard?). And I truly believe Ock is still a villain, not an anti-hero. The main thing I think separates the two is selfishness. Ock is still very, very selfish, unlike the true heroes and anti-heroes.
I also did like the OMD, OMIT storylines, even though I very much miss spidey and M.J. being together, because they brought a certain passion and emotion that you just wouldn’t get with typical storylines. Seeing how M.J. and Pete’s special day took a turn for the worst made me appreciate what they had before, more than ever before.
I am a firm beleiver in “distance makes the heart grow fonder”, and it’ll make Peter’s return that much stronger.
Thanks to anyone who takes time to read this, and remember, these are just MY OPINIONS.
And thanks to Douglas for starting this insightful conversation.
Also, it’d be nice to hear some of your guys favorite runs on spidey.
Thank you, and live long and responsible (wait, that’s not how it goes…)
Thanks for taking the time to comment and post such an well thought-out reply. I’m sorry to hear about your dog, although I’m glad that this blog helped make a tough day just a little bit better.
I think you have a perfectly reasonable take on SSM. I lose track of which blog posts I commented on, but I’ve said that there are parts of SSM that have been interesting. My big gripe is that I don’t think those interesting crumbs here and there were worth the damage done to Peter. I have no idea how they’re going to bring him back, but I honestly have no faith at this point that Dan Slott would do him justice.
My other beef has always been how Dan Slott has conducted himself during the course of all this. Yes, fan backlash was to be expected, but he could have managed it in a way where more people would take your approach (i.e., enjoy SSM for what it’s worth knowing that in due time Peter will return.)
What irks me about Dan Slott is that you have many, many Peter Parker fans who have been loyal to Marvel for years, and the response to their criticism has been to belittle and insult them. It’s that kind of behavior that helped me make the decision to drastically cut back on my comic buys, and I know I’m not alone.
Speaking of not being alone, I’d definitely like to add that if you’re ever in the mood to share something that’s on your mind that’s Spider-Man related, feel free to share here. I’m always game to bounce ideas off of, and I’m sure some of the other guys who have email notifications on this thread would be happy to chime in.
I’ll have to ponder my favorite ASM stories of all time. That’s a good question. My old comics are at my parent’s house in Chicago, so I’ll have to bust them out when I visit them in October. I might be aging myself, but I think most of my favorites probably take place between 1985-1990. I collected up until the Clone Saga, and then that knocked me out of commission for awhile. Eventually I came back and bought most of the back issues, and then after OMD/BND I was “done” again.
These days I’ll keep tabs on Spider-Man, but I rarely buy an issue. Sometimes I will just so I can write a blog post, but that’s about it.
With that said, if Peter Parker comes back and Dan Slott is not involved I will probably give the new writer a shot. It will require a Herculean effort to fix the wreckage, so I’ll have to cut the new guy some serious slack.
The really annoying thing about superior is that it not only debates Peter Parker as a character, it also taints all of the supporting characters and heroes who somehow fail to notice that Spider-man is now a completely different person. Being able to suspend disbelief is a key ability if one is going to read comics, but great writers manage to create believable characters surrounded by ridiculous circumstances. Why hasn’t Daredevil figured it out yet? What about Johnny Storm? Are they complete dipshits all of a sudden? Why should every character in the Marvel universe be made to look like a moron just to suit dan slott? Its for this reason I am finding it hard to by any Marvel titles at all. I agree with others that if slott had handled himself differently and put as much effort into getting on side with the fans that this may have worked a lot better, but all he does is belittle and infuriate the people who effectively give him a job. And what a job! What an honor it is to write this character. Dan slott really does not deserve it.
“Why should every character in the Marvel universe be made to look like a moron just to suit Dan Slott?”
I laughed out loud after reading this comment. Very true…
I would just like to point out something, notice here how we can have a civil discussion and yet disagree. With the exception of the Anonymous says, this is a great example of online communication increasing intellectual discussion (another thing Dan Slott does not agree with because it makes him look bad).
That highlights Dan Slott’s trick: he does little things to cause the conversation to devolve into meaningless name calling, even though he claims he wants to have a serious conversation. As has been demonstrated here, there are respectable positions on both sides of the fence. I personally think people will look back on this era and cringe, but that case isn’t one that the Marvel boards (or other sites that censor anything that makes Dan Slott look bad) want to hear.
As long as an individual carries himself in a remotely-respectable way, I welcome their contribution to the discussion. And even when they’re an all-caps using, expletive hurling troll, in some sense I welcome that because it just makes them look bad.
I agree with your method of moderation. Why limit discussion when it is productive. There has been a recent study on social solutions (something Dan Slott does not agree with since it does not support his case). Online media such as this can be used by companies to address concerns and find what the customer really wants. Slott can go on his rant about the football but he may be surprised of how well it would be received if Charlie brown actually got to kick the ball even if it was only once. I also like how Slott said he was taking a break from social media yet he still had to post in a forum when a forum member posted the recent sales decline.
I did not make that post and I did not participate in the discussion (Spider11211 sent me the link on it).
Mr. Truthwillwin1, got a good surprise random info for you Charlie Brown DID get to kick the football:
So I guess we caught Slott on another misinformation yet again…
Mr. Original Spiderman Fan,
Thank you I should have been aware of that since I had seen it. If memory was perfect…..
Clearly it did not hurt the Peanuts brand.
You’re welcome Mr Truthwillwin1!
Anytime my friend…
Nope, it just hurts Slott’s credibility and his intelligence once more.
If He (Slott) is so misinformed about such a simple thing such as boy and a football, then how do you expect his little mind to be able to deal with our webhead and his life? Nuff Said!
“If He (Slott) is so misinformed about such a simple thing such as boy and a football, then how do you expect his little mind to be able to deal with our webhead and his life?”
Or trend analysis and business fundamentals.
Well said guys! I have seen Dan Slott taking some heat in the comic vine forums and since then he does not come back much. I guess he does not want to stay where a moderator will not protect him.
Interesting. I haven’t stopped by in awhile. I might have to do that if there are some particularly good exchanges.
I browsed Superior Spider-man 18, in my local comic store. Someone wrote a long letter that they liked the original Peter better and that they didn’t like the egocentric Doc. Part of the editorial response was “…and even readers like yourself who aren’t crazy about the direction..need to find out what happens next.
Sorry, I disagree. i can read the Wiki plot summaries. I can even read the online comic reviews, as they usually tell me what’s going on. Sure, I like a read with Spider-man 2099. And a fight with the Green Goblin would be interesting. But only because of those characters – not Ock.
Now I’m reading indestructible Hulk and Wiki says this: “Banner is considered one of the greatest scientific minds on Earth, possessing ‘a mind so brilliant it cannot be measured on any known intelligence test.’ He holds expertise in biology, chemistry, engineering, physiology, and nuclear physics.” And in DareDevil 31, Matt is consulting with Henry Pym, who is working on scientific research and communicating with ants. And not once has either Henry Pym or Bruce Banner talked about how brilliant they are. Doc does it each couple of pages. Gee! Even Doctor Doom doesn’t talk that much about his brilliant mind. And he has both scientific and mystical expertise.
Exactly. I get all the updates I need through the online reviews that are written, as well as those posted to YouTube. When I get around to the comic shop I flip through the back issues of SSM and that’s about it. Sorry Marvel, but I don’t “need” to give you my money.
I know with all the negativity going on with SSM series it doesn’t sit well with a lot of people, but I would like to pose a question.
“How would you develop Octavius’ character as Spider-man, if you were in charge of the story?”
Even for a mind as broken as Octavius, reliving another person’s memory should effect. Yet, I do not quite see it, or maybe I’m still missing a point. I am starting to believe that the way Slott is portraying everybody (the Avengers and almost all of Peter Parker’s allies) is that all the other heroes do not know Spider-man’s as both a comrade and a friend.
I know this is a “what if?” question and not that connected with the ongoing conversation, but I would like to get a clearer picture from the different perspective of other fans on what can be done to an actually innovative idea to give a more positive light.
I am not being a support of Slott, I am still irked at how Peter was treated, but I can’t deny that the idea of the SSM is not something to look into and explore in our own way.
Good observation, Dminion. Put another way, Dan Slott uses characters as little more than props to do what Dan Slott wants to do with them. He knows their histories, but discards, downplays or distorts that history when it conflicts with what he wants to do. So what you have happening is that longtime friends and family of Peter Parker don’t pick up the obvious change in character. Teammates who would know something wasn’t right have acted like morons for issues. Then, guys like you start to wonder: “Did any of these people really know Peter if this is allowed to happen right in front of their faces?”
The answer is that there are so many plot holes that it’s not even funny.
As you said, having been exposed to Peter’s memories, you would think that would have a profound impact on the man. It hasn’t. What you’re essentially saying is that Doc Ock lacks empathy. The reader should be able to sense that from the man, and they’re not really getting it. Likewise, fans of Peter Parker should be able to sense empathy from Dan Slott, but for the most part all they get are insults along the lines of, “Shut up and eat what Dan Slott is cooking.” No thanks.
The mind meld (or memory meld or whatever you want to call it) with Peter should have had profound consequences, but it hasn’t. It should have caused serious introspection — even if Ock ultimately decided he was going to continue being the megalomaniac he’s always been. Readers should have seen that struggle, but they haven’t. I’ll let you decide what that says about Dan Slott’s editorial judgment and the writing skills displayed for this particular tale.
I think the most innovative thing they ever did with Ock was saving Peter’s life. It showed a remarkable depth of character, and this superior travesty comes nowhere near the depth of storytelling those few books did. How could I tell a “superior” body-snatching Ock story ? It depends on the end result I was looking for. If it were redemption (which this is not), it would end almost as soon as it began, with the memories flooding Ock at the end of AMS700 leaving Otto a weeping mess, eager to return to his own body, ready for his end. If it were a story about a villain turned hero, it would still end soon, because a hero does the right thing, and cannot act as a hero in a stolen body. They simply cancel each other out. Heros do not body-snatch. If Otto were to be an anti-hero, this could play out, where again, he uses his power to make things “right” by using “wrong” methods. We are actually closest to this model, but that’s still not correct. We now have a delusional sociopath, and Otto has become a one-note “hero”, where Otto the villain had actually shown more depth as a character. An example of this is the 2099 Spider-Man. The old Otto would talk before striking, to figure out what this guy wanted, to see if he could be used. SpOck calls him an interloper and hits him. Second time he fights him, he wants to hit him with a car because he has current tech instead of future tech. Third time he just cold-cocks him. Otto Octavius, the Master Planner, is dead. Long live Punchy, the Stuperior Spider-Sneak! Gollum! Getting back to your original question: How to make Otto’s transformation into Spider-Man a growth opportunity? It starts with being something more than just a sneaky, back-shooting, body-stealing pretender. After doing some major good deeds and some serious introspection and remorse, he would then “out” himself to the people who know Peter/Spidey best, apologize to them, and until they can find a way to bring Peter back, continue to prove himself to those people in order to EARN that second chance at life. Maybe we could cheer for him to get one. Gripping stuff.
I almost want to upload video of me clapping after this post. It’s … amazing (no pun intended).
I’ll be here all week. Try the veal.
The biggest problem is not what Slotts is doing. It’s what he did do at another’s expense.
Let’s suppose Peter were still alive and well. And Dan’s Otto was in an alternative dimension, etc.
I wouldn’t make Otto so egotistically. Right now, in the current storyline, Miguel O’Hara is every bit as brilliant as Doc. I have yet to see Doc discovering this and how he compares his brain to Michael. How does Doc compare his ego and achievements to Bruce Banner, Reed Richards, Henry Pym, Hank McCoy and Doc Doom? In the previous commentary, I mentioned the reader was chiefly reacting to Peter being gone and Doc being too egotistical.
When Max was being arrested, he said Max was a genius. “Nearly” as brilliant as doc. So does Doc think Bruce, Red, Henry, Hank and Victor, along with folks like Tony Stark and the Mad Thinker, are “nearly” as smart as he is?
Lose the ego. It won’t redeem things for making Peter die off. But it will be a better step with Doc carrying the mantle.
There are really few villain and heroes in the DC and Marvel universe as egotistical as Doc is.
The other thing is to have him battle more villains “nearly” as smart as he is. The Green Goblin is the only one now, who can give him a “real” fight, on both an intellectual and physical level. What about the Mad Thinker? The Leader (i.e. right out of the Hulk books)? Mysterio? Get rid of the villians who remind me of the Three Stooges, Al Bundy, the Seinfeld cast, etc.
well technically Lex Luthor and Brainiac, but Brainiac for all his ego has no emotions to really speak of. He is intellect. Lex is as megalomaniacal as Otto is but the difference here is a matter of proportions: Superman (an alien who bitch slaps god like beings) and Spider-Man (a nerd from Queens who beats up pick-pockets and the oddball symbiote or Lizard.) So with Lex being that insane it makes sense: he’s rich, he’s self-righteous, but all because he’s always trying to one-up a godly being, to say a “mere man” is better than an alien.
But even Lex, in his darkest moments, knows he stands no chance against the threats Superman does face. In Blackest Night when they down him because of the Orange power, he admits “I wanted to be Superman.” and in Forever Evil #1 he goes “My god… This is a job for Superman! So where the hell is he?!”
So while he outwardly never shows it, and it isn’t often, he knows deep down he will never amount to Superman, and he hates that and will stop at nothing to bring him down because of that. Throughout the entire SSM run we’ve now been in Ock’s head and NOT EVEN FOR A MICRO-SECOND does he sit down on Peter’s bottom on a rooftop and think “Peter is the better man… He always was. So I should be better!”
It’s very hard to empathize or even SYMPATHIZE with a character who does not want the approval of others, doesn’t care about the approval of others, but yet basks in the attention and glory that others give. He’s Lord Voldemort in a very real sense. Even more, I argue, than Norman Osborn, who for all his madness and twisted notions to kill Peter (which cement that he is EXACTLY what happens when Lex and the Joker have an anal love child…) DOES have aspects to his character that bring him back down: He ADMITS he’s a sick twisted old fuck. Otto not only DOESN’T admit that, I don’t think he’s even AWARE he is, and if he did it’s clear he doesn’t care enough.
Now that I think on it, the Amazing Spider-Girl DID explore what would happen if Norman got inside Peter’s head… Want to know how fast he was found out? LESS THAN A PAGE! I mean Tom DeFalco, bless him, REALLY gets that when it comes to body-swapping you don’t take for granted the characters involved. I think in the entire tenure of Mayday Parker they did perhaps 3 or even 4 body-swapping stories and it took at its longest about 4 issues until the jig was up and everything went back to a status quo.
When you’re writing a story, you can’t just bulldoze your way through it, because then nobody is going to care about the character for long. He needs PEOPLE to bounce off of, not OBJECTS. Take the latest issue of SSM for example: If MJ doesn’t slap SpOck next time she sees him, so help me the Force SLOTT needs to be slapped. THIS IS MARY JANE YOU NITWIT! You know, the woman you wrote as to being ALMOST IMMUNE to the Spider-Island powers due to fucking the man for YEARS (and married but we shall speak of the event that must not be named) and now you’re dropping her IQ by a good 30 points!!? I mean HOW many times has she been kidnapped by Ock to know how he talks? How PETER talks? Especially after “NOT NOW WOMAN!!!” in such a Stewie Griffin way I wanted to tear the un-purchased book to shreds…
But I’m raving at this point… Cheers 😀
Lex Luthor is a far more interesting and complex character than the current Spider-Doc. Doc has a great weakness, I’m surprised no villain has exploited it. It’s easy to insult him and make him mad. DareDevil did it when he said Doc was a fat tub of lard. It was when he first met the new Spider_doc. Spiderman-20999 did it when he called his stuff “low-tech”..
Yes, he’s “superior” all right. He loses his job at Horizon, he was no backup plan for keeping his thesis material “back-up off’-site”, his robots are failing him because of the Goblin hack, he hasn’t started his thesis, his henchmen got a discount on Hail Hydra suits, and yes – rather then inquire first what Spider 2099 is doing at Horizon, he punches him out. The preview panel for the next issue shows a big explosion
Re: the current arc: The knockout sets up that SpOck screws up the chance to follow 2099 out of danger and avoid the explosion easily. Re: Matt’s comments: great comparison to Lex and of Otto not getting introspective angle, because that’s been part of what’s happening, like Otto being overwhelmed by Peter’s memories never happened, and the only thing he retains ad nauseum is being the superior hero. It’s all so absolutely contrived to tell one guided-missile story without any real character development, to the detriment of all the support characters. I won’t even mention the detriment to Peter’s character. It’s still a churning ball in my gut. Otto has been stripped of basic introspection unless it’s in the direction of THE STORY. Spidey’s allies have been unable to really define what’s bothering them about Peter, so it’s backburnered. Nobody has really been able to pinpoint that Spidey has no more nobility and no more humility, no more guilt, no more wisecracks, his fighting style has changed, he has robots (millions of the f-ckers), has completely done a 180 on the no-kill rule he’s had FOREVER, and has become an insulting, megalomaniacal douchebag. Hideouts and minions absolutely complete a tableaux that really finishes the whole thing off. And I’m only talking about the Spider-Man end of the spectrum!!! The signs are starting to look good for 2014, but Slott still has a lot to accomplish before Peter can resume the mantle. For the sake of the story, I hope for more than I can expect from Slott, if he pays as little attention to characters as he does to factoids to support his upcoming Peter’s return arc. Hopefully, it would be very nice if SSM somehow splits off into its own book that Slott can write to his heart’s content, and leave ASM to the fans who want Peter back in blue and red. I don’t necessarily want him off comics, but I want his hands off Spider-Man. He has proven to me that he does not deserve the privilege.
It would so much more hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. I almost feel like this is one huge joke, and Dan Slott got with an annoying little nephew and said, “Tell me a crazy Spider-Man story and we’ll write it up just for you!” — and then it happened at the expense of Peter Parker fans everywhere.
As long as I can have milk and cookies, I’m good with a crazy Spider-Man story. Just make it where you don’t make your story do a Stretch Armstrong, and I’ll enjoy Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride, even if it’s at Peter’s expense (because, Spider-Man). Most recent nitpicks: Liz Allen is now Liz Allan, and Doc Ock “remembered” Kaine killing him.
I’m in the UK so I’ve just finished Amazing Spider-Man 700 (Or Astonishing Spider-Man 100 as it’s called in the UK) and I think the idea has a lot of potential. It’s could be more then just Jerk Spider-Man but rather showing a villain like Otto trying to do the right thing and accidentally relapsing into his old ways,
From what I’ve heard The Avengers are already on his case and I think the storyline could go into this situation where Otto is finding it hard to keep on telling the lie, maybe he comes to honestly care about Mary Jane and Aunt May and feels bad for lying to them, maybe he accidentally refers to himself as Otto.
I recall a story where Otto humiliates Tony Stark into admitting that Otto is better then him, imagine how angry Tony would be if he found out that Otto had killed off a close friend and replaced them. I think the series should basically show Otto trying to keep too many plates spinning with his own version of Parker Luck. Iron Man trying to find out why “Peter” is acting so weird, the other villains trying to avenge Doc Ock along with trying to avoid arousing suspicion with Peter’s friends and relatives.
Also there’s plenty of characters who have known Peter as the annoying morally balanced jerk who keeps trying to make them do the right thing, Punisher, Wolverine, Kaine and so on. I’m not buying that any of those guys wouldn’t be suspicious about Spider-Man killing a guy, they’d call him out on that the instant they heard the news. That would make for some great reading. Otto trying not to fall into old routines while everyone around him constantly wonders in the back of their mind if something hasn’t happened.
Thanks for the read and comment, JamesF. I appreciate it. Well, as you read on you’ll see a lot of your ideas (which would have made the series better) were not included in the final product. In fact, I’d say that as you continue to read you’ll actually get rather annoyed with how clueless some of the supporting cast seems to be…
I just wrote a new post on Dan Slott’s response to Superior Spider-Man joke on ‘The Big Bang Theory.’ It was shared on Comic Vine, where Dan Slott immediately began personally attacking me. The best part comes when he says he doesn’t know why readers give me the time of day while readily acknowledging that he trolls my blog for posts unrelated to Spider-Man.
Hopefully, I am having a bad nightmare. I’m been in a coma and dreamed I was reading a story where Doc Ock kills the real Peter Parker and takes over his role. Is this a bad remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Hopefully, I’ll wake up sometime and find the “real” Peter back.
I’d like to address something here that was said over at Comic Vine.
Was it worth it? Dan Slott laughs off 9 months without Peter Parker for kids.
Over at Comic Vine I asked the following question: Was it worth it?
Slott’s response is telling:
Nine months is basically an entire school year. An entire school year. Middle School is a weird time for kids, and somewhere in those two years (and perhaps into freshman year of high school) there comes a point where a kid basically chooses the group he’s going to hang out with. When I was in 7th grade, that’s when kids started dabbling in drugs. 8th grade, even more, and by freshman year you basically put your cards in with a certain group of kids.
Don’t believe me about the timeline? Ask Brian Holloway about how important 9 months could be to kid.
Nine months (or more) without Peter Parker is actually a rather long time for kids who are looking for guidance, as their own moral compass is shaky at that point in their life. Kids want to fit in. Their hormones are acting weird. They want to be popular. And yet, consciously or not, they’re looking for role models. The fact that Dan Slott doesn’t realize that is telling.
When I was a kid, myself and most of my friends were into comics up until freshman year of high school. At that point girls became much more important. However, it can’t be denied that — consciously or not — reading the adventures of Peter Parker helped shape who I am. I can’t quantify it, but I know that “with great power comes great responsibility” stuck with me then and it will carry with me until my dying day.
Side note: I worked in high schools and middle schools for almost two years after I graduated from undergrad (while I saved money for graduate school). All my beliefs about just how important those two or three years are to a kid were only reinforced during that time.
I’ve already covered how unrealistic and dumb it was for Spider-Man to freak out over North Korea’s gulag overseers, so I won’t comment on that. People can always read the post or my take down of Slott’s distortions if they wish.
Way back in July on the marvel chat boards I made enough waves about superior spiderman and dan slotts horrible writing to draw the man himself out and into an argument. That just proved to me that they are watching and deleting the posts, because I made slott mad enough to respond. His argument for superior spiderman was pathetic at best, he was relying on sales number and not counting the amount of readers who have actually dropped the title, which as close to twice the amount of his sales numbers. On top of it he couldn’t decently defend the character, but just got heated. I loved making him angry. It was the highlight of my week. BRING PARKER BACK!!
Thanks for the comment, Mark. Yes, Dan Slott loves the sales card. Granted, sales are nice, but the don’t always correspond with quality. As you said, there are many long-time Parker fans who have stayed away from the book, and once he comes back it’s going to be hard to really pick up the pieces. Which writer is going to do that? Dan Slott?
I considered making a Twitter account called “The Superior Dan Slott,” which would essentially mirror his own. I was going to basically take most of his tweets and make them “superior” by teasing out the flaws in all his arguments. I simply don’t have the time for it … but I’m sure he’d go bonkers if it existed and the tweets were biting. If I thought of it months ago I probably would have done it.
I was a hardcore AMS fan for almost 30 years (just turned 40). I never missed an issue. After the whole Mephisto thing, I still hung in there. Then Dan Slott came in and I just couldn’t get what everyone (reportedly) was raving about. It was just forgettable. To me the last great story lines were with JMS. Dan Slott enabled me to not only quit spider-man cold-turkey, but comics all together. I had a $40 week habit, but because of Dan Slott I don’t spend a penny on comics anymore! Recently, I went to wikipedia to see what is going on now with my favorite character and the synopsis of the storyline confirmed that I did the right thing! What trash! To all the die-hards who are disappointed issue after issue….just stop. It feels so much better to just remember spider-man how he was.
Thanks for reading and commenting, JGoon. According to Dan Slott, guys like you don’t exist! What a surprise to see you here.
Like you, I used to drop a good bit of cash on Marvel and its related products. That ended shortly after OMD/BND. I tried to stick with it, but at some point it just becomes too much. I’ll still by the occasional Marvel title (and even SSM) for possible blog posts, but that’s about it.
I believe there are thousands, if not tens-of-thousands, of us. That cash adds up over time… Marvel has a good thing going now with its movies, but that won’t always be the case. It’s sunshine and rainbows for the company right now, but does anyone really believe that there won’t be storms in the future? Every company, on a long enough timeline, goes through lean periods. During those times, they depend on a loyal fan base. That’s why I think Marvel’s current business model (i.e., let’s annoy fans who have been with us for decades) is insane.
Again, thanks for the read. I appreciate it.
So now we got the “Superior Six”… Guys is it that Marvel’s superheroes are so dumb and dimwitted that they can’t see that Spidey got his tentacles changed or is it really Dan Slott and his crew that think that we are the dumb ones with his rants about sales? This comic is garbage all the way. If they really make their fantasy world not click that there is a similarity with Spider-man creating a Sinister Six in the same fashion as Doc Ock did with some unrealistic plot twist, then really I do believe that they’ve reached beyond looney… And Douglas good one on making Slott angry on the Antisemitic remarks he made his own character say. If he was so jewish, he wouldnt have made such a racist remark, spitting on the memory of the millions of jews that perished in the holocaust at the hands of such a monster as Hitler. He’s no Jew, they’re not supposed to have any gods before their God, and He treats his ‘”superior spider-man”as a god. Even his “heritage” is something he wants to cash in on… What a sad little man is Slott.
The intelligence of so many supporting characters and heroes has been lowered a good 30 points in order to make this all “work” (if you call SSM working). Do you laugh or cry at this point? I’ll go with laugh because I know in the long run people will look back at this era and do the same.
Thanks for the support on that other post. I thought it was interesting how Dan Slott was able to flippantly insert Hitler’s name into his book, but when I talked about the implications of doing that it was somehow beyond the pale. And then, I used a picture that was so inflammatory that he … posted it over and over and over and over again as he followed me around the internet. Then he accused me of breaking Godwin’s Law when it was he who first brought Hitler into the equation. His character (now Spider-Man) wanted to create a world-wide Holocaust and uttered the names of three of humanity’s worst butcher’s as he was on the cusp of making it all happen. But yet, I’m the bad guy? Classic.
The reason why he has stewed over it for months is because, deep down, he knows I’m right.
Ultimately slotts superior spider-man is like reality tv, for the dumb who can’t see all the plot holes and negative aspects. However, I have come up with a way to end it that would give amazing spider-man core fans new readers what they love and herald back the Peter Parker everyone wants.. Let me know if I should submit this to marvel.
My story is call superior spider-man revelations. Spider-man is faced with the return of Norman Osborn as the green goblin, who has figured out what no one else in the marvel universe seems to be able to, there’s something not right with spiderman. Thinking that this spiderman must be an imposter he targets those Peter Parker loves to prove it. Spiderman figures out that the goblin is targeting loved ones and sets out to protect aunt may, an obvious target, and the woman Ock has loved for years. In the midst of trying to protect them spiderman ultimately sees jay as dead weight uses sacrifices him to save May and himself. Seeing that this move catches the goblin off guard allows spiderman the opening he needs to finish Norman osborn once and for all. (Brings us back to jjj hating spiderman)
Spiderman now on the run from the law, has decided to gather what he needs and skip town as Peter Parker’s life is crumbling. He has decided it would be easier to go back to the life of a super villain. As he returns to Parker’s apartment to gather the resources he needs the wall explodes and spider-man comes face to face with a foe the like of which he cannot fathom, doctor octopus.
A battle ensues as spiderman fights the supposed imposter, but Ock explains that he is no imposter. During his last days he came up with two plans to survive his imminent death. One was to transfer his mind into the body of his greatest foe, the other was to have miles warren transfer brain into a cloned younger body as the jackal has figure out how to repair ocks mind, the body wouldn’t be ready for almost a year. The mind transfer wasn’t successful, but rather transferred many of Parker’s memories into ocks mind and apparently vice versa. Parker refusing to believe this begins to have a melt down as he starts to realize that he had allowed his mind to be tampered with and ultimately coming to the conclusion that he pushed away the part of his mind that was telling him the truth, he is Peter Parker. Parker also faces the realization that he has killed osborn and jay. He’s crossed the line. After defeating the new younger octavius, Peter Parker vows to be spiderman no more. End SSM.
Amazing spiderman 701, Peter must begin to cope with what he has allowed himself to do. It takes continues mental help from his friends, reed Richards. He must learn to one day face aunt may again.
The problem with ideas like yours Mark (which show promise), is that they would fall on deaf ears. Would Marvel rather take Mark’s idea and admit their “brain trust” wasn’t up to the task of delivering a version of Spider-Man that unites the vast majority of fans, or would it rather try and convince readers they aren’t the architects of disaster? Sure, the foundation is rotten (i.e., a megalomaniac in Parker’s body for an extended length of time), but if Marvel puts nice windows and siding on the house … maybe it will bring in some buyers.
See with this idea I feel that I could almost save slotts retarded vision and make something of it. It’s like slotts gauntlet story line that ultimately could have showed promise, but ultimately went no where with a series of unrelated events that could have been related and made much better
True… It will be funnier, especially if when we look back and hopefully remember when Marvel got it’s marbles back into place, and realized the garbage and lack of talent Slott has when forming his “genius” plots; they have been so sloppy and pedestrian that really, he should think of retiring. By the way now Carlie has the information necessary to supposedly bring down SpOck, but why is it that cause of this Slott’s fairytale flopper, that has my Spider-Sense warning me of a coming inconvenience for our Friendly Neighborhood Carlie for Slott’s convienience? Hmmmmm? I’m just thinking on sticking to Wikis, this numero uno Blog, and news about Spider-man even if Peter comes back from now on… The only way is that the get the Red Head remarried to our Web-head and give us a huge reason to spend ur money on that series.. Oh and a lifetime ban on anything Slott, maybe he could make a comic where he can swap places with Lucy’s Football and have Charlie Brown hit him in an eternal Time loop cause by one of Snoopy’s magic tricks… Just Saying…
It’s been a bit since I last posted, but reading rogues applaud worthy post definitely grabbed my attention. First off, I agree with Douglas, I damn near gave a standing ovation after reading.
Now, the reason for my posting… I got into a discussion with my wife about this (I am a lucky s.o.b. to have nerded out my wife), and she did bring up a good point about people maybe not realizing it’s not Peter inside. Given all the telepaths and all, Peter has gone off the reservation multiple times (i.e. the venom symbiote, and the back in black storyline). He has deviated from friendly neighborhood spidey before. Granted they were not on this scale and still were Petey, his friends could still maybe think he is dealing with his own issues.
And to go the opposite direction… If his friends know his past and his tendency sometimes to deal with issues harshly, then they should know to f-ing step in and save him from himself!
So I finally did it wrote a very innocent post on the sales forums it was very polite and admitted that Marvel knows way better than any of us. I specifically asked in the post for Dan to wait until I addressed him in a thread (which I did ten minutes later) before reacting. He flipped out and started associating me with all of the more absurd conspiracy theories. I didn’t judge him or react I was waiting for him to respond to the extremely nonjudgemental sugarcoated 2,000 word thread that really gives him the benefit of the doubt he skipped the entire post to the last sentence where I mention Hitler video’s as non personal stress relief if Goblin Nation goes bad to respond to and then posted a second time again pointing out that he had skipped it. So I wont give him the benefit of the doubt.
Re: Kal Penn, he has suffered the fate of any one of hundreds of mistresses of kings and rulers over the years. In, out, gone.
Marvel broke faith with me as a reader long ago so in a way it was fortunate to see the chaos of Dan Slott as Spider-Man (because that’s what his effort really is- Mary Sue / wish fulfillment for a fat kid nobody likes) one step removed.
I have two friends with young kids- and neither of them will allow Marvel comics in the house any more.
Ouch. That one is going to leave a mark.
Yep. These days Marvel seems to cater to a weird and demented older fan base that likes to see Doc Ock torture victims while posing as Spider-Man.